Tesla Gigafactories, News and Conversation

2,313 posts in this topic

53 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 Luckily the introduction of minimum wage had a massive positive impact in Berlin.  

 

The truth is, free markets will milk everyone's blood if they are allowed.   And Unions have been fighting for our rights as workers for hundreds of years.   

 

My wife who is quite popular got elected to her firm's Betriebsrat. I get to hear the whole thing. When it first started they had a militant who was an arsehole, but now it's been going a few years it is a really positive thing for her firm. She is on the Personalausschuss which figures out salary structures, holiday rules etc. They also have a health dept which does stuff like ergonomic desk design, employee depression/psychology.

 

I wish I'd had some kind of protection like that when I had a career. You need some kind of rule system. 

 

But for a company like Tesla with this mentality of exploiting employees for shareholders, I think it will crash and burn here.

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1 hour ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

This is exactly the problem.

 

 

This is exactly the opposite of the problem, its an industry where everyone dreams of working.

So that makes it ok to a abuse them? 

Or are you and MM saying that if you find your dream job you should put up with whatever conditions? 

Also that was in answer to MMs assertion that the norm in tech companies is not to disrespect the workers

 

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11 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I've worked in 3 different tech companies. Never had an Union. Was never treated with disrespect. This is the norm in tech companies. Tesla has its tech company background. Most workers don't expect and don't want a Union. In several countries Unions don't work together with the company. They work to protect the union's representative jobs and to protect the union's political party. Maybe it is different in Germany, but so many things are different here.

As always there's an exception to every rule.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50554931

 

IIRR Uber has been accused of dodgy practices and this is not the first time for Google and then of course there is real ageism in the Tech industry.

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14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

I've worked in 3 different tech companies. Never had an Union. Was never treated with disrespect. This is the norm in tech companies. Tesla has its tech company background. Most workers don't expect and don't want a Union. In several countries Unions don't work together with the company. They work to protect the union's representative jobs and to protect the union's political party. Maybe it is different in Germany, but so many things are different here.

I work in tech, although not specifically a "tech company" and am represented by IGMETALL.   No Complaints.  Especially not over the 35 hour work week.  No one has a problem with the union here.  Quite the opposite.

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5 hours ago, French bean said:

 

 

IIRR Uber has been accused of dodgy practices 

Ubers dodgy practices were aimed at  their drivers and customers rather than the tech side of the company.

 

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7 hours ago, Keleth said:

So that makes it ok to a abuse them? 

 

I thought the comment said they volunteered to work for free....aka no gun to the head.  I could make a case that these "employees" are "students" and as students, they do not get paid for their education.

 

 

14 hours ago, Keleth said:

Can never understand people who buy something that is often an inferior product just because of the looks.

I can never understand how some people jump to a conclusion without any facts.  The truck was just announced last week and you've determined (without any contact) its quality.

 

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27 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

 

 

 

I can never understand how some people jump to a conclusion without any facts.  The truck was just announced last week and you've determined (without any contact) its quality.

t

 

That was me stating too many people buy stuff because of the looks rather than the quality or usefulness of it.Nothing to do with the quality of this particular truck at all.

 

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39 minutes ago, catjones said:

I thought the comment said they volunteered to work for free...aka no gun to the head.  I could make a case that these "employees" are "students" and as students, they do not get paid for their education.

 

Before you start trying to be clever in your arguments how about you actually read some of the fucking comments.

This is what MM wrote...

 

"I've worked in 3 different tech companies. Never had an Union. Was never treated with disrespect. This is the norm in tech companies "

 

You see how that ties into my post ...

7 hours ago, Keleth said:

Also that was in answer to MMs assertion that the norm in tech companies is not to disrespect the workers

 

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4 hours ago, Keleth said:

Before you start trying to be clever in your arguments how about you actually read some of the fucking comments.

 

Actually, I did read the fucking comments....you're the one who didn't.   Relaying a simple example is hardly "clever" except to someone who sees it that way.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Gaming industry workers suffer from a simple problem: they want so bad to work on it that they would work for free.

 

This is exactly the problem.

 

12 hours ago, Keleth said:

So that makes it ok to a abuse them? 

 

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12 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

FWIW it seems there is already a nickname. Its now known as the Cuck Truck apparently.

Wait until the "cuck truck" shows up at their local drag race and blows all their modified Cameros away.

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22 hours ago, French bean said:

As always there's an exception to every rule.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-50554931

 

IIRR Uber has been accused of dodgy practices and this is not the first time for Google and then of course there is real ageism in the Tech industry.

As I´ve said a few pages before, Uber, together with Wework and many others, are part of a new style of scam, where a company without a business case just try to grow into dominant position until they reach IPO. Then eventually reality catches up and the employees and shareholders are left to burn. The seed investors are the ones who profit.

 

Regarding Google, I am extremely skeptic of these claims because I know first hand that Google has an amazing work environment. Really, if that would be the average work place, we would all be in heaven! But I also know that Google attracts a lot of far left idealists, which want to "change the world".

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22 hours ago, Keleth said:

So that makes it ok to a abuse them? 

Or are you and MM saying that if you find your dream job you should put up with whatever conditions? 

Do you know how much an Astronaut, a Lego Master builder or a game developer make? Not much! Why? Because they love what they do and competition is fierce.

 

22 hours ago, Keleth said:

Also that was in answer to MMs assertion that the norm in tech companies is not to disrespect the workers

 

Tech companies in general don´t disrespect the workers because they can leave at any moment, throwing away knowledge and training.

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34 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Tech companies in general don´t disrespect the workers because they can leave at any moment, throwing away knowledge and training.

 

Oh man, so naive, so naive.   We live in the times of the "lego management", where employees are seen as interchangeable resources.   Maybe mid-management understands the problem of keeping know-how in the house, but the ones who decide do not care.  

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

Oh man, so naive, so naive.   We live in the times of the "lego management", where employees are seen as interchangeable resources.   Maybe mid-management understands the problem of keeping know-how in the house, but the ones who decide do not care.  

That is very true, for example on automotive contractor companies in Munich. I know a lot of cases where projects are up and destroyed within a year. Good thing about tech workers is that they find other work easily. Another thing is that a union would not help at all in these cases. The law allows in most countries to extinguish a whole business unit. So they just create a business unit per risky project.

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

Another thing is that a union would not help at all in these cases. The law allows in most countries to extinguish a whole business unit. So they just create a business unit per risky project.

 

That would be a Jein.  Yes, technically you can fire people because of operational reasons (i.e. close a department), but it is not always that simple.  You might need to do a social study first if the works council proves that people are transferable, and ironically, this is sometimes easy because the upper management described the jobs as totally interchangeable (because that was in their interest when they did that).

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My own union experience. I paid the Carpenter and Millwright's union $ 25 a month in order to make twice as much money as the non-union jobs in the area.

 

End of story.

 

 

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5 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

As I´ve said a few pages before, Uber, together with Wework and many others, are part of a new style of scam, where a company without a business case just try to grow into dominant position until they reach IPO. Then eventually reality catches up and the employees and shareholders are left to burn. The seed investors are the ones who profit.

 

Not new at all.  In my day, we called it the dot.com boom (and bust). 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

My own union experience. I paid the Carpenter and Millwright's union $ 25 a month in order to make twice as much money as the non-union jobs in the area.

 

End of story.

 

 

 My experience, when I wasn't in the union I felt I was being subtlely picked on, if I did something wrong it was an automatic disciplinary. After saying I had joined the union, it all stopped, attitude towards me changed completely.

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14 minutes ago, French bean said:

 My experience, when I wasn't in the union I felt I was being subtlely picked on, if I did something wrong it was an automatic disciplinary. After saying I had joined the union, it all stopped, attitude towards me changed completely.

At least in the US, the union has to represent you even if you do not pay dues. You get all the same benefits. So basically you are free-riding on others.  This often makes people feel disgruntled.

 

I think that people who do not want to join the union should be allowed to do so - as long as they do not receive any of the benefits.  Such as weekends and safety equipment.  

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