Want to move to Belgium, but keep my Berlin job: tax, social security? (Only need anmeldung, not actual housing per se)

14 posts in this topic

Hi all,
Currently living in Berlin but will move out of the city/country back to where I came from (Belgium) or possibly to France or Spain.
I'll still be working for my Berlin based company (they allow me to go full remote, which is of course awesome).

The thing is that I would love to stay on as full time employee (as opposed to going Freelance), for now at least, the company is still in start-up mode and I would love to stick around as a fulltimer.

For that, I obviously need to keep my Tax ID, which I would lose if I would un-register myself from Berlin.
So - tldr : basically I just need an address for my anmeldung, I wouldnt actually be living at the location.

Is this something that is legal / frowned upon / allowed ... I would still be paying taxes in Germany etc ... so for the German state it would even be good cause I'm not using any of their resources while I'm still contributing :)

Any places where I could be looking for a person that would allow me to do this kind of anmeldung ?

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25 minutes ago, stormwatcher said:

The thing is that I would love to stay on as full time employee (as opposed to going Freelance), for now at least, the company is still in start-up mode and I would love to stick around as a fulltimer.

For that, I obviously need to keep my Tax ID, which I would lose if I would un-register myself from Berlin.

 

Why would you lose your tax ID if your de-register? AFAIK you'll just no longer receive the basic deduction.

 

I can recommend a great tax advisor who you could hire to sort this out ( @PandaMunich).

 

25 minutes ago, stormwatcher said:

basically I just need an address for my anmeldung, I wouldnt actually be living at the location.
Is this something that is legal / frowned upon / allowed

 

It is illegal with fines up to 50k.

 

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10 minutes ago, engelchen said:

Why would you lose your tax ID if your de-register? AFAIK you'll just no longer receive the basic deduction
 


So you are saying I can still be a full time employee at a german company without having an address / living in germany , as long as I just have my Tax ID (which I already have) ?

50k fine - dont need that in my life.

Also - don't get it what the issue would be. What if I register at a location in Berlin but I want to take a very very long holiday in France, or even work from France ... what's the issue there that would cost me 50k ?

Wouldnt it be the same as if I was just going to france for a year now (while still having my current apartment in Berlin) ?

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holy moley @PandaMunich - Thank you so much.
This is already more elaborate info than I got from the accountant of my company.

He said that the construction of me moving (back) to Belgium (or France or Spain - still don't know where I'll end up) would be only possible if my company sets up a local payroll in Belgium.
(He probably meant : that would be the path of least resistance (read: least amount of work for me))

So let's see if I got it right:
Taxes

The moment I do my abmeldung, Germany will bump me to class VI.

As fast as possible my company needs to register me as (for example) beschränkt Steuerpflichtiger to get me back into class I
Hopefully this step doesn't take too much time, otherwise I'll be taxes as class VI for x time.

I will pay my taxes in Belgium/France/Spain and declare my german salary in that declaration.


Soc security
Get the status of a "posted/seconded" worker > only possible for 2 years with one extension
or Getting the Berlin company to enter into a Belgian employment contract > this seems more impactful/work for my current german company regarding administration/paperwork, or am I dramatising?

But again - thank you so much. Would we/I be able to hire you as a consultant to help me/us with this process ?

 

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8 minutes ago, stormwatcher said:

Getting the Berlin company to enter into a Belgian employment contract > this seems more impactful/work for my current german company regarding administration/paperwork, or am I dramatising?

 

Yes, a lot of companies don't want to go down that route, because they have no idea what responsibilities (e.g. higher vacation entitlements or different rules for sick leave) they might be letting themselves in for.

 

7 minutes ago, stormwatcher said:

Would we/I be able to hire you as a consultant to help me/us with this process ?

 

No, nothing in here for me ;)

Just show that Haufe article (the one I linked to) to your company's accountant (tell them to click on the 30 minute test link at the bottom of that article to be able to see and then print the entire Haufe article), and they will then know what to do exactly.

 

The only tax adviser you may need would be a Belgian/French/Spanish tax adviser, to do the Belgian/French/Spanish tax return.

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You are brilliant. The least I can do is report back here when everything is over, to make sure other people benefit from this.
 

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It is always an option to sublet your apartment as a flatshare and claim you still love there while keeping your official address in Berlin.  It can be a bit tricky for sure but it's entirely possible, also remember that the same renters rights do not apply for flat shares so if for whatever reason you need to move back to your flat you can kick the people out.

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20 minutes ago, Bluewishery said:

It is always an option to sublet your apartment as a flatshare and claim you still live there while keeping your official address in Berlin.

 

On 04/11/2019, 21:05:14, engelchen said:

It is illegal with fines up to 50k.

 

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31 minutes ago, Bluewishery said:

It is always an option to sublet your apartment as a flatshare and claim you still love there while keeping your official address in Berlin.

 

Maybe this wasn't a typo!

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AFAIK, income tax and social contributions in Belgium and France are among the highest in Europe, so my advice would be Spain as new location.

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1 hour ago, Bluewishery said:

It is always an option to sublet your apartment as a flatshare and claim you still love there while keeping your official address in Berlin.  It can be a bit tricky for sure but it's entirely possible, also remember that the same renters rights do not apply for flat shares so if for whatever reason you need to move back to your flat you can kick the people out.

You can do stuff like that in Greece but don’t mess around in Germany..

I have been renting a small house as an office here for five years and have no contract with the illiterate landlady. She owns 6 houses which she rents out - none with a contract! Today, she brought me 6 water bills.. “ which one is yours? “

By the way, they are all in the name of her husband- who died three years ago! So are the electricity bills etc. And even her phone bill!

 

And there is no  registration of an address here..I´ve almost forgotten what that´s like after 25 years in Germany..though I am still registered there for legal/business reasons.

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3 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

 

It depends, not if you create a contract detailing the nature of the sublet, along with leaving your items (some, not all obviously) in the apartment.  I have known quite a few people who managed to do this quite successfully and it actually does work, but not if you ask for more rent than is allowed, ect.

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