Niederlassungserlaubnis application rejected (German university graduate)

8 posts in this topic

Hello Toytowners,

 

Summary of my situation:

2014-2019 (Feb) PhD

Feb 2019 - current --> Dec 2020 Wissenschaftliche mitarbeiter

2014-2017 Registered as a student at the Uni (§16 visa, stipendium)

2018-current Not registered as a student (§18 4 S. 1 visa, contract)

Feb 2019 Graduated from the Uni.

 

With this, I applied for the NE since I have contributed for 24 months with §18 into the Rentenversicherung and am a Deutsche Hochschulabsolvent.

 

The lady rejected this saying that I need to have contributed into the Rentenversicherung for 24 months AFTER the study period (Studiumzeit). I don't know if she is interpreting the law differently or if that is indeed the case. She did let me apply for the EU Blaue Karte though. She didn't ask for any German certificate since the studies were in German and I was speaking German well enough with her.

 

My argument is that I was registered as a student only till 2017 end (exmatrikuliert). Since 2018 I have been contributing under §18 (actually I have been contributing for close to 50 months).

 

Any thoughts? Would really appreciate input.

 

Best,

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It seems that when you are resident in Germany as a student that this time period is only counted as half the normal amount according to the law

 

§ 9  Niederlassungserlaubnis  Section 4 subsection 3

(see bold)

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_aufenthg/englisch_aufenthg.pdf

 

 

Quote

The following periods shall be taken into account with regard to the periods of possession of a temporary residence permit which are necessary in order to qualify for issuance of a permanent settlement permit:

 

1. the duration of former possession of a temporary residence permit or permanent settlement permit, if the foreigner was in possession of a permanent settlement permit at the time of leaving the federal territory, minus the duration of intermediate stays outside of the federal territory which led to expiry of the permanent settlement permit; a maximum of four years shall be taken into account,

 

2. a maximum of six months for each stay outside of the federal territory which did not lead to expiry of the temporary residence permit,

 

3. half of the period of lawful stay for the purposes of study or vocational training in the federal territory.

 

So according to this then your 5 years study only counts as 2.5 towards your permanent residency permit.

 

There is also this similar case:

https://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/Unbefristete-Aufenthaltserlaubnis-fuer-Studenten--f315882.html

 

 

So I'm afraid that you just need to wait before you can apply again under this rule.

 

 

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Thanks dj_jay_smith!

 

Ah that sucks. I thought the fact that I was under the §18 visa for gainful employment for the past two years would count for something. You may be right.

 

Can you take a look at the two attachments. one is the §18B and the other is the §9(2) that is referenced by §18b. Aren't these applicable in my situation?

 

Thanks once again! :)

 

 

 

 

18b.jpg

9-2.jpg

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I am not a lawyer or expert, but I would say:

You were a student until Feb 2019 when you graduated, even if you were working before this time. 

Any work you done before you graduated would not fall under the "has a job commensurate with his degree" as before then you had no degree, so then that would also be why it might be excluded.

 

I also think that I have read that they expect the 24 months of payments to be fulfilled after graduation, and that anything prior to that is somehow not counted or only partially (similar to the residency period only counting as half if you are a student).

 

 

You could try to find out more information on exactly what points you failed on.  Or you could contact a lawyer to challenge this, who could then advise you if you have a good case or not.  Or, you could just wait until you have done another 2.5 years and then apply again.  Or, as you said you have a bluecard then I believe you can apply for permanent residency with a Bluecard after only 21 months (with B1 German, which you are obviously way beyond!)

 

 

Maybe somebody else on here can advise better if you wait a bit longer for a reply.  There are others who know this system very well and there might be exceptions which might help you which I am not aware of.  

 

As your German is good, then maybe you can search in German on sites such as Frag-einen-Anwalt.

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You are right dj_jay_smith, maybe I am the one interpreting this wrongly :D Thanks for the Frag-einen-Anwalt suggestion, I wasn't aware of it. You are right, the EU Karte is okay and I can apply for the NE later. I'm probably just disappointed by the rejection. 

 

I just typed up an angry repartee intended for the Sachbearbeiterin at the Ausländerbehörde. Your response convinced me to save it to drafts and follow the 72 hour rule

 

I'll gladly wait for more input on this matter.

 

Thanks once again! You were very helpful.

 

Best,

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an angry repartee is rarely fruitful, but especially so in Germany, and especially especially with any government office.  I would strongly urge you to refrain from sending any such email or letter even after a cooling off period.

 

when dealing with the abh it's much much better to simply and calmly cite every reason - with references to existing law - explaining why you should get the permit.  This could be difficult if you don't know the specific reason for the rejection, and I'm not sure you're entitled to one in the first place (yet), so I agree with all of dj's recs.  

 

one point stands out to me though:  when I applied for my permanent residence I had to go in with all my paperwork and it had to be in order before they would even give me an appointment to formally submit the application (had to try twice).  Did they skip this pre-screening with you or was the encounter you described in your original post effectively a pre-screening? 

 

eta: the reason it might matter is at least in my case, the pre-screening was done by a person at the reception, while the real application was of course processed by a "real" beamterin.  If you fall into a weird area of the process, the pre-screener may not be aware of the loopholes that might apply to you, but not sure.  I still think dj is right that the two years of gainful employment has to occur after graduation for it to count, especially as one normally needs 5 years of employment without a bluecard.

   

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Hi Lisa13,

 

Thanks for the suggestion; I meant the angry repartee as a joke :D The email actually included references to the §18b and §9(2) as attached in my previous post. 

 

The pre-screening was done on the phone. The guy who was talking to me said I am eligible for the NE and asked me to get a set of documents. I went in there totally ready with everything requested (Versicherungsverlauf etc. etc.). The Sachbearbeiterin then said that the info supplied to me was wrong and angrily noted down the name of the person who spoke to me and gave me an appointment. 

 

So, I basically had all the required documents for the NE. But she denied it on the grounds of this two years AFTER the study rule.

 

Thanks for your answer. You guys might be right :) I just cannot find any source or law that explicitly states this.

 

Best,

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you're not the first and I doubt you'll be the last to have abh workers tell you drastically different things :(

 

I hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction (whether that's the permit, or a solid confirmation that you really aren't eligible yet) asap!

 

 

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