Non-Smoking Bars/Kneipe in Hamburg (Lack of)

[lisa13 12,199]

14 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

Therefore, I think the bar owners would probably lose customers if the smoking laws got tougher. 

 

I don't buy it.  I mean, if you can't manage to get your ass up off your barstool, go outside and smoke, then come back in...if that is so much too much for you to handle that you're willing to skip the social interaction and stop drinking, or choose to drink at home, possibly alone...really?  I don't think that adds up.

 

I do think it's an argument against selective or voluntary smoking bans as yes, smoking customers are likely to go to other establishments that still allow smoking.  But with a blanket ban those options are almost entirely eliminated.  Bars in munich are far from empty, and some are so packed that if you tried to light up you'd risk setting your neighbors ablaze.  No way, no how are bars here "suffering" from the ban.

[tor 13,744]

1 hour ago, True Believer said:

Schramme, Frau Möller and Bucks all serve food so they're going to be non smoking.

 

and they show sky sports and have local charm.

 

M&V serves food, albeit snacks, and it is a charming bar.

[alexunterwegs 172]

I don't know if this has anything to do with a different perception of "bars/kneipen" than what I'd been used to in Britain.  In Britain the "pub" is seen as as an establishment where almost the entire community would visit from time to time. I know of few British people who never, ever visited pubs.  

 

Here, I've come across a fair few people, who would never think of going for a drink in a bar or kneipe. And these are by no means teetotalers or members of some monastic order.  I think the bars here, have a more basic decor and  layout, and you can see how alot of people might not be attracted to the atmosphere inside. Landlords clearly have a narrower public they are aiming for centred around hardcore drinkers, and maybe smoking just fits better in that atmosphere and with that clientele.  

[dessa_dangerous 11,033]

I don't live in Hamburg and I don't have any recommendations for you.

 

As for whether the bans work or not, I think is a lot up to the general mindset of the local population.  In Munich, pot is heavily frowned upon and the people are more conservative.  Maybe even fewer of them per capita were tobacco smokers before the ban (since smoking is a poor man's hobby, that could even make sense) or are more likely to be wearing clothes that are dry clean only when they go out (as opposed to the standard Berlin outfit of rags and Chucks).  In Hamburg there is also chill, whereas Munich is kind of known, outside of Munich at least, for having NO chill.

 

AFAIK smoking is still totally illegal in Berlin bars over a certain size, but after the first six months or so, the Ordnungsamt appears to have basically given up on controlling it.  Possibly because they're also working class people who enjoy a smoke now and then after Feierabend?

 

One of the first things I noticed when I first stated working in Berlin was the concept of Privatsphere and Freizeit.  I would meet parents of my students on the street and immediately chuck away my cigarette or put it behind my back, if I was smoking one.  Let's say this happened six or seven times--each and every time, the parent, present there with their small child, waved this gesture away, assuring me that I was perfectly within my right to do whatever I wanted in my free time and it was none of anybody's business.  I was still each time mortified to be setting a bad example as a person of maybe even "authority" in a child's daily life.  The parents were having none of it, though.

 

tl; dr: majority rules in Germany, for better or for worse.  If more people in Berlin would expect and demand that bars be non-smoking places, they would be.  IMHO.  And for chillige Hamburg it is probably the same.

[kiplette 6,747]

3 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

assuring me that I was perfectly within my right to do whatever I wanted in my free time and it was none of anybody's business. 

 

Oh, now I wish you would up the game each time, just a tad. I wonder what would push that concept just over the edge?? 

[dessa_dangerous 11,033]

6 hours ago, kiplette said:

 

Oh, now I wish you would up the game each time, just a tad. I wonder what would push that concept just over the edge?? 

 

We both know the answer to that!

Crossing over a red light.

 

[keith2011 409]

18 hours ago, lisa13 said:

 

I don't buy it.  I mean, if you can't manage to get your ass up off your barstool, go outside and smoke, then come back in...if that is so much too much for you to handle that you're willing to skip the social interaction and stop drinking, or choose to drink at home, possibly alone...really?  I don't think that adds up.

 

I do think it's an argument against selective or voluntary smoking bans as yes, smoking customers are likely to go to other establishments that still allow smoking.  But with a blanket ban those options are almost entirely eliminated.  Bars in munich are far from empty, and some are so packed that if you tried to light up you'd risk setting your neighbors ablaze.  No way, no how are bars here "suffering" from the ban.

Somewhat off track from the OP and at the risk of going even further astray @lisa13 do you have any idea how the shisha bars in Munich get round the smoking ban? Some even serve food I believe.

[lisa13 12,199]

@keith2011 no I have no idea.  A quick google indicates it is indeed illegal for them to offer tobacco, but it seems they get busted (effectively) more often for tax evasion than the actual smoking.  

 

but I am not even sure they all offer tobacco - shisha seems to have some loopholes for fruit smokes.  I've been to a couple and recall the waiter putting fruits in the pipe, don't know if there was tobacco in it too or not - certainly didn't smell or taste like it but not sure.   Both of those places served food, yes.

 

and of all the articles I scanned regarding cracking down on shisha bars for smoking ban violations, none were from Munich.  So anecdotally it seems we're not the only ones with no chill   Apparently Dortmund has the strongest reputation for rabidly enforcing the smoking ban.  who knew?

 

[keith2011 409]

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

@keith2011 no I have no idea.  A quick google indicates it is indeed illegal for them to offer tobacco, but it seems they get busted (effectively) more often for tax evasion than the actual smoking.  

 

but I am not even sure they all offer tobacco - shisha seems to have some loopholes for fruit smokes.  I've been to a couple and recall the waiter putting fruits in the pipe, don't know if there was tobacco in it too or not - certainly didn't smell or taste like it but not sure.   Both of those places served food, yes.

 

and of all the articles I scanned regarding cracking down on shisha bars for smoking ban violations, none were from Munich.  So anecdotally it seems we're not the only ones with no chill   Apparently Dortmund has the strongest reputation for rabidly enforcing the smoking ban.  who knew?

 

@lisa13 Thanks for that, not sure though if the law is even dependant on tobacco smoking, given that vaping, where the liquids  used are not tobacco and in some cases are even nicotine free, is also banned.

[lisa13 12,199]

6 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

@lisa13 Thanks for that, not sure though if the law is even dependant on tobacco smoking, given that vaping, where the liquids  used are not tobacco and in some cases are even nicotine free, is also banned.

 

like I said, afaik shisha bars are generally allowed to offer fruit-only "smokes".  Why don't YOU google it to satisfy your curiosity?

 

eta:  read this re: German vaping laws. https://www.innocigs.com/blog/e-zigarette-gesetze-rechtslage/

[keith2011 409]

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

 Why don't YOU google it to satisfy your curiosity?

 

The same could be said for the OP of this thread and many other postings in this forum. What's the problem with a question requesting opinions and points of view or posting something in the hope of generating an interesting response??? Isn't that what this forum is about?

[lisa13 12,199]

you're absolutely right.  asking for personal recs is the same as googling a general issue, let alone laws. 

 

Mods!  the forum's utility has been breached - shut it down!

[warsteiner70 146]

35 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

The same could be said for the OP of this thread and many other postings in this forum. What's the problem with a question requesting opinions and points of view or posting something in the hope of generating an interesting response??? Isn't that what this forum is about?

 

But asking what the law is about something isn't asking for a point of view or opinion. Asking what you think about a law, how people bypass a law, why a law isn't policed by the authorities, etc. is.

[keith2011 409]

27 minutes ago, warsteiner70 said:

 

 Asking what you think about a law, how people bypass a law, why a law isn't policed by the authorities, etc. is.

That is exactly what I did in my initial shisha question see quote below:-

 

"Somewhat off track from the OP and at the risk of going even further astray @lisa13 do you have any idea how the shisha bars in Munich get round the smoking ban? Some even serve food I believe."

 

My post following the initial response from @lisa13 was merely a further to that and I really don't understand the subsequent clearly annoyed responses.

[warsteiner70 146]

I don't know about 'annoyed' responses but this forum is more about responding to people's questions and helping them solve their problems rather than a chatty forum where people discuss this, that or the other so 'posting something in the hope of generating an interesting response' can sometimes come across as lazy. But don't take it personally, I certainly didn't mean my response to come across as 'annoyed' and Lisa probably didn't either.

 

There is a Miscellaneous Themes forum on here where people chat about all sort or things so if you are looking for a chat then that may be the place - https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/forum/179-miscellaneous-themes/

[kiplette 6,747]

11 hours ago, dessa_dangerous said:

 

We both know the answer to that!
 

Hidden Content

 

 

Oh you are so right 

[alexunterwegs 172]

So back on the topic of non-smoking bars in Hamburg, I was hoping for a few more suggestions, but  bears out my own impression that there are very few options. Of the bars mentioned, 2  I was aware of, another on Google looks like its more of a Bistro and the other seems to be targeted at the gay community.  It's not as if Hamburg is a small town. 

 

 

[silty1 2,475]

I enjoy shooting pool and having a beer or two at Shovel Road from time to time.  It's got a kind of roadhouse atmosphere and live music often on weekends.  If you want to smoke you either hang around this one small, closed-off room in one corner, or head to the tables outside.  It used to be smelly and smokey, now it's possible to spend a couple of hours without coming out stinking like an ashtray.

[lisa13 12,199]

24 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

So back on the topic of non-smoking bars in Hamburg, I was hoping for a few more suggestions, but  bears out my own impression that there are very few options. Of the bars mentioned, 2  I was aware of, another on Google looks like its more of a Bistro and the other seems to be targeted at the gay community.  It's not as if Hamburg is a small town. 

 

 

 it's not a personal rec, but I was toodling around on mitvergnuegen munich and just out of curiosity, switched to hamburg and found this:

 

https://hamburg.mitvergnuegen.com/2018/11-nichtraucher-bars-in-hamburg/

 

 

 

[alexunterwegs 172]

8 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 it's not a personal rec, but I was toodling around on mitvergnuegen munich and just out of curiosity, switched to hamburg and found this:

 

https://hamburg.mitvergnuegen.com/2018/11-nichtraucher-bars-in-hamburg/

 

 

 

 

Thanks Lisa, There may be a couple there worth checking out.. They seem to be concentrated in the more trendy, liberal cosmopolitan parts of town, where , perhaps more health conscious punters to be found, who knows.