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Want to get the hell out but it makes so much sense to stay for the masters

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Here goes:

 

I am really unhappy here in Germany. The people suck. They are so unfriendly, arrogant, passive aggressive, racist, prejudice and grumpy. I am of brown complexion and every time I am seen with a white woman, we get stares of disapproval (frankly I couldn’t give two shits but when it repeatedly happens, even the best start ruminating on it…subconsciously or consciously). A lot of people think I am from the middle east which is far from the truth but I definitely feel unwanted here. I study at a well-known university in STEM and will be done with the bachelors next summer. I can speak German fluently and will be writing my thesis in German. Sadly, the students suck. It’s like I am back in the sixth grade and they aren’t mature enough to start up a normal conversation with someone who they see practically everyday. But when you ask them something „Wer bist du?“ No wonder why Germany will never have its own „Silicon Valley“. They stick to their little group and never cross the boundary of talking to someone new. And this whole group dynamic bullshit is very very annoying here. You talk to one person and then someone else in their „group“ doesn’t like you…seriously back in the sixth grade. Sadly I’ve also seen this with Germans who are 40+ as well.

 

And a typical thing germans say: „Ah du pauschalisierst uns!“ Which is so pathetic and hypocritical because all they ever do is make general remarks of practically every other nation. But when someone does it to them…noooo way! But let's get something straight. I have met some cool germans since being here. It's just they are few and far between. For every cool person there are about 1000 shitty people.

 

Another thing is, the people here are just wimps. They talk shit behind your back and then when you confront them about it, they deny it. They are only bold behind closed doors.

 

So enough of the introduction…the foreigners know exactly what I am talking about. Of all the foreigners I know, there was only one who actually liked it here.

 

So easy: leave then. Or as the germans would say: „Ausländer raus!“

 

Right, I would in a heartbeat, but it makes educational and financial sense to stay for the masters. The education is very good, the costs to study are low, the cost of food (at the supermarket) is very reasonable, the healthcare is good and affordable. On top of that, going back to the states does not make any sense because the Germany university system is very different than the states, let alone other countries in Europe. For example, the grades here are more on of the lines of passing or failing. You get a grade of course but 65% of the students don’t pass the exams. This happens every semester. My grades are fairly good but trying to go back with my grades to the states would be a joke. It’s a different mentally here and I find the mentality here somewhat correct. The US is more on a company-customer basis: students pay thousands of dollars so they expect better grades. Here in Germany, as many people including professors say, the grades in the bachelor are not important. Also the US has a Bachelor to PhD system where EU has Bachelor to Master to PhD. The great thing about doing a masters and a PhD in Europe is that one doesn't have to waste their time with these silly GRE exams.

 

I keep telling myself „Just keep biting the bullet and push through“ but I have never been so unhappy in my life. I would like to stay in the EU but since I am Non-EU I have to pay a lot of tuition if I study somewhere else. Also, in masters, it’s about focusing your studies in a specific direction of interest so just going „somewhere“ else isn’t really the point. The university where I study at has a lot of research opportunities and I am already on my third HiWi position. So I am grateful for that. Also, moving costs money. Money that I don’t have. I live off of my HiWi position (I work 19 hours per week) so going to a different country as a foreigner and then trying to find a new position would be practically impossible. Some countries make new students wait 6 months (like in Germany and in Switzerland) before they can work. Hence it would just be very chaotic and stressful to move somewhere else when I could just say „Fuck it…two more years“ and then I am gone.

 

This was partially a stream of consciousness so I apologize for the disorganization. Any insight is appreciated. Has anyone had a similar dilemma?

 

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Just keep biting the bullet. Nearly done. You know it is what it is. Try and find a MSc with less tiresome people. They may be closer than you expect or set yourself up for a dissertation outside the uni: Helmholtz, MP, Frauenhöfer. Still tiresome but a different flavour of tiresome to mix it up a bit :)

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I know nothing about the German university system, but is moving to a different town an option? Do a bit of research and see if you can find somewhere else in Germany that will make you a bit less miserable?

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yes, stick it out. concentrate on the end game. I hear you on the traits that some germans exhibit...annoying, to say the least. But there plenty of great people here too of course...just sounds like you have a sucky cohort.

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3 hours ago, pappnase said:

I know nothing about the German university system, but is moving to a different town an option? Do a bit of research and see if you can find somewhere else in Germany that will make you a bit less miserable?

 

I've already moved twice. First to a small town then to another then I said screw it and moved to one of the biggest cities. I figured the bigger cities would be more open and internationally friendly. It's not the case. Doesn't matter where you go they are all the same.

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@renemp What have you done to make yourself feel at home? Your profile says you're American. Do you have your comfort food? US tv? We can't fix German attitudes for you, but we can point you to ways to feel more relaxed in your own place.

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Press on. 

 

Try to get networked with non-German international students even if they study something different than you do. 

 

Have you considered switching neighborhoods or cities within Cologne or NRW?  Maybe try commuting in from Düsseldorf, Bonn, or Aachen.  

 

 

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It is nice to read that you already realize that you have quite a bit to be grateful for: you got into a good university, were able to secure various paid research assistant jobs, got to move around to various towns/cities, you have good and affordable health care...

 

Now imagine how hard it would be for a foreigner to achieve something similar in the US... It is do-able, but very difficult to secure a position, visa etc. In addition they make you take silly GRE exams, give you "homework" even as part of a Ph.D.-program (talk about being back in sixth grade...)

 

Point being, navigating the system as a foreigner is difficult, because you view things from a different perspective. This may be part of the reward once you succeed, but while you are struggling with the differences it simply sucks. Keep in mind though that those "unfriendly, arrogant, passive aggressive, racist, prejudice and grumpy" Germans are the same ones that enrolled you in University, offered you research assistant jobs, pay tax to keep things affordable for students etc.

 

My advice: count your blessings, keep an optimistic open view, and press on; two years can fly by with the right attitude.

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what Dubya said.

 

And for what it's worth I had similar social experiences in Uni in the US - the group intrigues, people who don't even know you talking shit behind your back, lack of willingness to engage "strangers" they saw every day, bigoted assholes, passive aggressive nonsense and the added perk of AGGRESSIVE aggressive, genuinely scary shit.  I didn't live on campus as I couldn't stomach it.  I did come away with three good friends that I met somewhat randomly but that was it. We had a strange little gang and that was plenty for me.

 

there was also the problem of so many people pretty much living to party.  Not in a fun way, in an "ick" way (the way american college students often do), and that was primarily how students socialized and met new people.  If you didn't partake in those activities, especially living off campus, your chances of making new acquaintances was drastically reduced.

 

point being is that based on your complaints, I am not sure you'd have had a much better time as an undergrad in the US - my guess is it would depend very much on the school you attended and which activities you engaged in outside your studies.  I think the same is likely true in Germany.  Even as an older person it's quite difficult to find your peeps (here OR in the US)  and usually it depends on your casual activities.   

 

and I'll add in closing:  if you are carrying around this subtle or not so subtle hatred of Germans, guess what?  You're very unlikely to spot the ones you may get on with fabulously, as you'll be too closed minded to see it.

 

 

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@renemp: you enjoy free education in Germany. What would you pay in the good old USA? Taxpayers on this forum are paying for your studies. You could be a bit more grateful. In the Netherlands non-EU students pay more or less the cost price since they never paid any taxes into the system. This could be €7500-10000 per academic year. 

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Just hang-on in there. We've all been there. Yeah, it sucks. But don't throw away the upcoming gains from the pain you already endured. Exhale. Keep identifying the shite. Move away from the arseholes calmly.

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1 hour ago, LukeSkywalker said:

You could be a bit more grateful.

 

In other words, "Put up with the racism, closing doors in your face, and cliquey bullshit.  Shut your mouth except to say thank you."

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No, ofcourse not, but the OP is exaggerating, e.g. he met only one foreigner who likes it here in Germany or for every one cool person there are 1000 shitty people.

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yes, and strangely, for complaining about racism so much we have this regarding "Germans"

 

4 hours ago, renemp said:

Doesn't matter where you go they are all the same.

 

ffs come on.

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4 hours ago, Dubya said:

Point being, navigating the system as a foreigner is difficult, because you view things from a different perspective. This may be part of the reward once you succeed, but while you are struggling with the differences it simply sucks. Keep in mind though that those "unfriendly, arrogant, passive aggressive, racist, prejudice and grumpy" Germans are the same ones that enrolled you in University, offered you research assistant jobs, pay tax to keep things affordable for students etc.

 

My advice: count your blessings, keep an optimistic open view, and press on; two years can fly by with the right attitude.

 


Just because I come here and express my feelings about something doesn't exclude how I am on a day-to-day. I am a very optimistic, positive and friendly person. If that wasn't the case I wouldn't have made it this far.

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2 hours ago, lisa13 said:

and I'll add in closing:  if you are carrying around this subtle or not so subtle hatred of Germans, guess what?  You're very unlikely to spot the ones you may get on with fabulously, as you'll be too closed minded to see it.

 

 

 

 

"carrying" is something I am not doing rather "experiencing". What I wrote above is based off of my experiences not some prejudices I have towards the people. I am and always have been an approachable person and I am competent enough to not let negative things affect potential future relationships...this is elementary. And like I said in my initial post...there are nice people but few and far between...

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2 hours ago, LukeSkywalker said:

@renemp: you enjoy free education in Germany. What would you pay in the good old USA? Taxpayers on this forum are paying for your studies. You could be a bit more grateful. In the Netherlands non-EU students pay more or less the cost price since they never paid any taxes into the system. This could be €7500-10000 per academic year. 

 

Did you not read my post. I used the word "grateful" and said some positive things about Germany. Jesus you people just like to not read and just attack. Very typical.

 

And by the way, if I had it my way, I would have rather studied in the states and paid more for my education than be here. But since I am here I planned on sticking it through. It seems you germans are too sensitive to take some criticisms of what is like for international students in your own country. I see that very often here. Say something bad about germany and the people just turn on you. Wake up germans...your country is far from perfect. Your argument "Shut up and be grateful" is just pathetic and frivolous. I also pay taxes every month for the last three years here in Germany...should I run an infinite loop on my gratuity?

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1 hour ago, CincyInDE said:

 

In other words, "Put up with the racism, closing doors in your face, and cliquey bullshit.  Shut your mouth except to say thank you."

 Unfortunately that is not my modus operandi

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26 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

No, ofcourse not, but the OP is exaggerating, e.g. he met only one foreigner who likes it here in Germany or for every one cool person there are 1000 shitty people.

 

Oh look another german who is in denial.

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6 minutes ago, renemp said:

It seems you germans are too sensitive

 

Luke is not German. Nor am I, nor are most posters on this site. You have a serious prejudice, man

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