Irresponsible hausverwaltung - apartment under repair for too long

9 posts in this topic

Hi everybody.

This is a new question related to the problem explained here:

Here's the brief description:

After the discussed water damage, the Hausverwaltung company sent someone from a repair company to measure the humidity in the apartment right away! And they said they would start the repair process in 2 weeks.

Trusting them I cancelled my summer trip to make it coincide with the repair period. But they didn't show up and kept me waiting for 1.5 months until they finally started the repair process around 3 weeks ago.

 

The problem is that the service chain (Hausverwaltung <-> Repair Company <-> Insurance <-> Carpenter) is too laggy, having made me practically homeless for 3 weeks so far:

- Repair company first sent an Angebot for removal of the laminates.

- Waited a few days for the insurance to confirm it was a reasonable one.

- Then arranged for an appointment for removal of the laminates.

- A few days after removal of laminates some one came and started the drying (Trocknung)

- *Only after the drying was finished (it took ~10 days) they sent some one to see what else they needed to do*

- Then they issued another Angebot covering installation of new laminates (didn't they know it before?)

- Now it has been *9 days* since they left the apartment (uninhabitable of course). I only received some forwarded email that they are waiting for the insurance to confirm this new Angebot.

- (based on the previous pattern, they are going to waste another 1-2 weeks after the insurance confirmation, just to find a free time for the actual installation)

 

With my wife we have been living in different secondary apartments -- both paid and unpaid ones.

 

The Hausverwaltung company is unresponsive and has stopped answering my explicit questions in emails. They have also rejected my phone calls 3 times.

 

My questions:

1) Is there any way to legally force them finish the process faster? Is there any maximum repair period or such a thing? (considering that I was the cause of the main water incident)

2) My Haftpflichtversicherung has orally told me that they wouldn't pay for the secondary residence place. Now, can I ask anyone else to reimburse the cost? Alternatively can I stop paying rent due to the delayed/lengthy repair process?

 

Thanks a lot!

 

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normally you could claim a rent reduction during the time your place was uninhabitable but since you're the ultimate cause of the damage, you might be SOL.

 

and here it comes:  join the mieterverein as they can help you with this

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in addition, I'm not sure why you are pissed at the hausverwaltung, nor is it clear why they are involved at all.  Their primary purpose is to manage the building overall, not individual apartments.

 

sometimes the landlord and the hausverwaltung are essentially the same entity but the bottom line is that it's your landlord's responsibility to ensure your apartment is habitable, not the HVs per se.  So the fact that the HV is involved at all leads me to think:  they are effectively your landlord, too, OR your diy disaster damaged areas of the building outside of your apartment which brought it into their sphere of influence.  Still, it's your landlord you should be pissed at (well, sort of, maybe start with yourself) and you should be communicating with them about your complaints.

 

 

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Right on, Lisa!! OP's self installed bidet 

Quote

 

<_< may well have caused extensive water damage to surrounding flats. 

Good job  he did not install a jacuzzi!

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1 hour ago, Nima_SD said:

 

The Hausverwaltung company is unresponsive and has stopped answering my explicit questions in emails. They have also rejected my phone calls 3 times.

 

Could it be that your expectations are a little too high and your tone is a little too demanding?

 

Like Lisa, I don't understand why HV is involved at all. You caused the damage, you would normally have to arrange the repair yourself with your insurance company. 

 

1 hour ago, Nima_SD said:

 

My questions:

1) Is there any way to legally force them finish the process faster? Is there any maximum repair period or such a thing? (considering that I was the cause of the main water incident)

 

No and no.

 

1 hour ago, Nima_SD said:

2) My Haftpflichtversicherung has orally told me that they wouldn't pay for the secondary residence place.

 

Yeah, liability insurance only pays for damage you do to others. Not for damage you do to yourself. 

 

1 hour ago, Nima_SD said:

 

Now, can I ask anyone else to reimburse the cost?

 

In principle, household contents insurance (Hausratversicherung) or building insurance can reimburse hotel costs - if this is included in the contract, it is often not included in standard contracts.  

 

I assume you don't have a corresponding household insurance? Then only the landlord's building insurance can be considered, but they do not pay (unlike liability insurance) in the event of negligence. 

 

Quote

Alternatively can I stop paying rent due to the delayed/lengthy repair process?

 

Not a good idea. Be sure to seek advice from the tenants' association before cutting or even stopping the rent. 

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" I kept using the half-installed connection for a few days and... the nightmare finally came true! "

If I were your landlord I would sue you for all the damage you did to the apartment.

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1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

in addition, I'm not sure why you are pissed at the hausverwaltung, nor is it clear why they are involved at all.  Their primary purpose is to manage the building overall, not individual apartments.

 

sometimes the landlord and the hausverwaltung are essentially the same entity but the bottom line is that it's your landlord's responsibility to ensure your apartment is habitable, not the HVs per se.  So the fact that the HV is involved at all leads me to think:  they are effectively your landlord, too, OR your diy disaster damaged areas of the building outside of your apartment which brought it into their sphere of influence.  Still, it's your landlord you should be pissed at and you should be communicating with them about your complaints.

 

 

 

Thanks Lisa. You pointed at an important question. Indeed I also was (am) confused who the person in charge is / should be. I live in a multi-apartment complex. The landlady is a person independent of the HV.

 

The way things evolved automatically was as follows:

- Hausmeister noticed the water damage and contacted me.

- He also took the chance to take photos of the (crime?) scene and forwarded them to HV.

- HV arranged with a repair company and sent an inspector. As mentioned before, they planned for the repair from the first day.

- I notified my Haftpflicht.

- I called the landlady (an old lady, who does not have an email address; thus unaware of everything). I told her that there has been such an accident and HV is working on it, etc.

then the rest of the story...

 

So, from the first moment there was the confusion who should sue whom. But HV kind of put himself in charge. I thought I had to follow whatever they said (didn't even know of existence of HV at all by that time).

 

During my follow ups while I was waiting for the repair to start, in one of the emails HV wrote:

"Anbei Auftrag im Namen WEG nach Rücksprache Versicherung"

I asked a German friend, and he told me this means the WEG has decided the repair to be done and it should be followed.

 

Had I known that they were not in charge, I would've arranged everything myself. Specially since as we dried the apartment right away, and turned on the Bodenheizung the next day for three days, there was not much left to "Trocken". Even when the inspector finally came again after 1.5 months (before the actual start), he was surprised not to find any humidity in the walls, and very little in the ground. So could've arranged a much lighter repair, if I knew HV wasn't in charge.

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they likely took over because you damaged other parts of the building too, which is legit.  The fact that the hausmeister discovered the damage in passing makes that pretty clear.

 

Anyway they decided they should handle it so you're kinda at their mercy at this point.  They likely don't give a rat's ass if you are inconvenienced, but more importantly, they really can't arrange all the repairs in one fell swoop as each step depends on the results of the last, and yes, they have to schedule each step as they go.

 

further, I think you overestimate how "smoothly" things go even in a planned renovation, let alone in a case like this.  in real life, they don't go smoothly, no matter who is organizing the project.  Workmen rarely show up when they say they will.  "Surprises" are discovered.  So far it really doesn't sound too egregious considering the extent of the damage.

 

the HV is not responsible for the habitability of your apartment, your landlady is.  In normal situations where something breaks randomly, you'd harass your landlady, and she would harass whoever she had to harass to get your problem sorted - maybe it's the HV, maybe a private service, whatever, that's for her to work out.  HOWEVER I strongly believe your landlady deserves zero harassment in this case.  You really screwed the pooch and I don't think you're in a position to complain quite so much here.  

 

NOTE:  I am somewhat sympathetic as I, too, do my own diy projects, most recently replaced a faucet and drain in my bathroom.  I checked it daily for the first week to be sure there were no leaks, and I still keep an eye on it, and you can bet if I discovered any moisture at all I'd shut off the water and call a plumber immediately.  I would not call my hausmeister - in fact he'd probably tell me to piss off, anyway - as it's my responsibility and also in my best interest, not the hausmeister's, to have my mistake repaired correctly.  I have to wonder:  did the hausmeister even turn the water on to check for the leak you reported?

 

regardless, it's all water under the floorboards at this point :)  I hope your apartment is restored quickly but also think you need to be patient.

 

 

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and one more thing:  I know it seems like having the insurance company in the middle of every step, waiting for their approval and that kind of thing seems to be slowing things down (and objectively it probably is) but you need to consider the world of pain you'd be facing if you didn't have such cover.

 

seriously - I shudder to even think of the consequences if you had no haftpflicht cover.  

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