(Planned) Amendment of the Residence Act for post-Brexit residency

65 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

Did she have to pay a fee for the online settled status application? Please ask - the info I have is that the application is cost-free for Germans in UK, but both NE and DA-EU applications cost for Brits in DE.

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I don't think she did it online. I think it was a printed out form. I'll check.. just ringing her now.

Mum printed off the application - about 85 pages. Had help from a local MP and other places. Town hall offered a service to check through everything. That cost about 20 pounds. They copied the original documents which my mum had to supply. The town hall sent in everything for my mum. They advised her from sending in any original documents.They even rang up the Home Office to check.

 

Then mum had to pay 65 pounds via credit card. This was for the processing by the Home Office.

 

Mum is supposed to get it back, because Theresa May said she would change the rules. Sajid Javid even sent a letter saying they would refund the cost, but so far she's not received anything.

 

Sorry this is disjointed - mum doesn't always explain things properly.

 

It took about 5 weeks.

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41 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

according to what both sides said - they'd reciprocate in kind

 

did they actually say that specifically regarding the *cost* of a residence permit?  Can you point me to an official and specific statement on that front?

 

I read this faq in its entirety and I see zero mention of the "fact" that EU states have agreed to waive the cost of permits for UK nationals  https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/services/your-rights/Brexit_en  In fact it does not even seem to be the case that the UK is waiving fees for EU citizens unless they already had obtained a permanent residence document:  "New UK residence documents will be issued free of charge (for those relying on a valid permanent residence document issued under EU free movement law before Brexit) or for a charge not exceeding that imposed on nationals for the issuing of similar documents." (bold mine)

 

Reciprocity agreements usually revolve around the general conditions for getting said permit, and that's it.  Reciprocity does not imply price matching.  For example, Germany has reciprocity agreements with many states in the US for exchanging drivers licenses without having to start over from scratch, but in no way does that imply they price match the cost of a license for any given state.  You know that, right?

 

So yes, Germany has offered to reciprocate regarding some special rights to residence permits for UK citizens already living in the country, and the UK will do the same for equivalent cases in the UK. So where do you get the idea that the costs will be the same on both sides and in what sense do you not find that "uncommon"?  I realize you've never had to actually get a residence permit so maybe you are simply ignorant to the fact that we are all charged the same price for the same types of permits no matter where we are from?  It would be actually be VERY unusual to have separate prices for different applicants depending on country of origin.

 

Let's not forget, the whole notion that a withdrawal agreement will be ratified in time to avoid a hard brexit is now looking like sheer fantasy, dontcha think?

 

and by the way, you're the one who is apparently frothing at the mouth with outrage over the idea that you might have to pay a couple hundred euros. max, for a permit.  your sense of entitlement just leaps off the screen.  

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11 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

did they actually say that specifically regarding the *cost* of a residence permit?  Can you point me to an official and specific statement on that front?

 

I read this faq in its entirety and I see zero mention of the "fact" that EU states have agreed to waive the cost of permits for UK nationals  https://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/services/your-rights/Brexit_en  In fact it does not even seem to be the case that the UK is waiving fees for EU citizens unless they already had obtained a permanent residence document:  "New UK residence documents will be issued free of charge (for those relying on a valid permanent residence document issued under EU free movement law before Brexit) or for a charge not exceeding that imposed on nationals for the issuing of similar documents." (bold mine)

 

Reciprocity agreements usually revolve around the general conditions for getting said permit, and that's it.  Reciprocity does not imply price matching.  For example, Germany has reciprocity agreements with many states in the US for exchanging drivers licenses without having to start over from scratch, but in no way does that imply they price match the cost of a license for any given state.  You know that, right?

 

So yes, Germany has offered to reciprocate regarding some special rights to residence permits for UK citizens already living in the country, and the UK will do the same for equivalent cases in the UK. So where do you get the idea that the costs will be the same on both sides and in what sense do you not find that "uncommon"?  I realize you've never had to actually get a residence permit so maybe you are simply ignorant to the fact that we are all charged the same price for the same types of permits no matter where we are from?  It would be actually be VERY unusual to have separate prices for different applicants depending on country of origin.

 

Let's not forget, the whole notion that a withdrawal agreement will be ratified in time to avoid a hard brexit is now looking like sheer fantasy, dontcha think?

 

and by the way, you're the one who is apparently frothing at the mouth with outrage over the idea that you might have to pay a couple hundred euros. max, for a permit.  your sense of entitlement just leaps off the screen.  

 

You have not given one cou ter argument why the notion is bonkers. You have just moved on to other topics. Again, what is bonkers about what I wrote? What is entitled about it, given cost-free is already offered to Germans in UK?

 

Verhofstadt, Barnier, Tusk, country leaders have all pledged to reciprocate, both on TV, in social media and elsewhere depending how the UK treats EU27. Pretty logical. 

 

I presume you would rather the UK cancels the cost-free application advantage for Germans in UK, since it is not written down anywhere that they MUST offer this cost-free? 

 

According to your argument, Germans (and other EU27 in UK) should be treated like other non-EU, pay thousands in application fees, and have an income threshold applied just like US citizens in UK.

 

I, for one, disagree that ANY of the already resident Germans/EU27 in UK should have to pay any application fee, just like ANY Brits already in EU27 shouldn't have to either. 

 

Fur those who arrive in UK/EU *after* Brexit, sure, by all means treat them exactly like Americans. 

 

You will not find a single German in UK who agrees with your idea though...

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5 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

 

You have not given one cou ter argument why the notion is bonkers.

 

And she won`t.

 

She goes on threads pretending she can actually contribute but in reality she can`t. 

 

If your waiting for an answer keep on waiting.

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16 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

 

You have not given one cou ter argument why the notion is bonkers.

 

And you've only made allegations so far, but you haven't provided any evidence. I'd like to have a source for your claims. Bigmouthed claims from the island are currently very fashionable, but not very convincing.  

 

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31 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

And you've only made allegations so far, but you haven't provided any evidence. I'd like to have a source for your claims. Bigmouthed claims from the island are currently very fashionable, but not very convincing.  

 

What allegations? It's a simple logical equation:

 

EU27 said they will reciprocate how EU27 in UK are treated, and vice versa. Deal or no deal. 

 

UK offers EU27 in UK cost-free application for resident title. Ergo EU27 shall reciprocate cost-free application for Brits in EU (preferably, sooner rather than later before UK changes their mind and starts charging EU27 in UK an application fee again)

 

Priti Nasty is probably chomping at the bit to reintroduce application fees for already resident Germans/EU27 in UK. It is in everyone's interest to make sure she has as little ammunition as possible.

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15 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

What allegations? It's a simple logical equation:

 

 

I would not bother engaging someonesnutcase either. Her problem here is that brits came here legally something which she has not really gotten over.

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42 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

What allegations? 

 

Those for example:

 

"Verhofstadt, Barnier, Tusk, country leaders have all pledged to reciprocate, both on TV, in social media and elsewhere depending how the UK treats EU27. Pretty logical."

 

But I guess nothing's coming. Was to be expected. After all, you now have a groupie:

 

27 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

I would not bother engaging someonesnutcase either. 

 

How are you getting on with learning German, Degenerated Farter? Do your friends from the station still help you? Maybe at some point you can start lying, mobbing and slandering in the local language ...

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10 hours ago, europaeuropa said:

You have not given one cou ter argument why the notion is bonkers. 

 

Yes she did. A pretty clear and concise one from where my fat arse is sitting.

 

10 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

And she won`t.

 

She goes on threads pretending she can actually contribute but in reality she can`t. 

 

If your waiting for an answer keep on waiting.

 

Now now kids, time to put on those big boy pants. Our fellow countrymen have thrown us under a bus, and unfortunately we are all gonna have to deal with the consequences. I had to fork out some 700 monopolies to get a citizenship that I don't want. But them's the breaks. Life is kick in the balls sometimes.

 

I couldn't be bothered to read through all the ranting, how much are these applications actually gonna cost?

 

Now this was the question at hand was quite clear...

 

10 hours ago, europaeuropa said:

Verhofstadt, Barnier, Tusk, country leaders have all pledged to reciprocate, both on TV, in social media and elsewhere depending how the UK treats EU27. Pretty logical. 

 

Pictures or it didn't happen. Because reciprocity does not mean it's gonna be for free.

 

Britain needs desperately  needs to keep it's EU workers...they are propping up the hospital staff numbers if nothing else. But us Brits here in Germany...I doubt it would make much of a dent if we were all sent home tomorrow to be honest.

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11 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

Yes she did. A pretty clear and concise one from where my fat arse is sitting.

 

 

Now now kids, time to put on those big boy pants. Our fellow countrymen have thrown us under a bus, and unfortunately we are all gonna have to deal with the consequences. I had to fork out some 700 monopolies to get a citizenship that I don't want. But them's the breaks. Life is kick in the balls sometimes.

 

I couldn't be bothered to read through all the ranting, how much are these applications actually gonna cost?

 

Now this was the question at hand was quite clear...

 

 

Pictures or it didn't happen. Because reciprocity does not mean it's gonna be for free.

 

Britain needs desperately  needs to keep it's EU workers...they are propping up the hospital staff numbers if nothing else. But us Brits here in Germany...I doubt it would make much of a dent if we were all sent home tomorrow to be honest.

 

So you are in favour of the UK cancelling the decision to make the application process cost-free for Germans/EU27 in UK?

 

Why would anyone want to risk that? Especially with Priti Nasty on duty.

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8 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

So you are in favour of the UK cancelling the decision to make the application process cost-free for Germans/EU27 in UK?

 

I couldn't give two shiny shites what the application fee is, in either country. But since you do, it's time to answer the question...when did the Germans say that the application fee is gonna be for free?

 

Also, I still wanna know how much we are talking about here...what is the cost?

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Amma waiting to see what happens when the Einwohnermeldeamt gets all gnarly about me having to do the document two-step with fees and not doing it. I´ll wait untill the very last minute then bring up my Unbefristerteaufentaltserlaubnis from 1972 and watch their Beamte´s brains implode while trying to devide by zero.

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27 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

I couldn't give two shiny shites what the application fee is, in either country. But since you do, it's time to answer the question...when did the Germans say that the application fee is gonna be for free?

 

Also, I still wanna know how much we are talking about here...what is the cost?

 

For Brits in Germany the application fee is EUR 109. For Turks in Germany, the application fee is offered at a significantly discounted price.

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8 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

For Brits in Germany the application fee is EUR 109.

 

So relatively fuck all then. It costs me about €50 to re-register my car each time I move. The Germans love a bit of bureaucracy and the fees that go with it. A bit annoying but it is what it is.

 

8 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

For Turks in Germany, the application fee is offered at a significantly discounted price.

 

Ooh, nice, I see what you did there ;)

 

So that answers one of the two questions. How about that second one? You know, the one you were giving Lisa grief for...

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31 minutes ago, theGman said:

 

So relatively fuck all then. It costs me about €50 to re-register my car each time I move. The Germans love a bit of bureaucracy and the fees that go with it. A bit annoying but it is what it is.

 

 

Ooh, nice, I see what you did there ;)

 

So that answers one of the two questions. How about that second one? You know, the one you were giving Lisa grief for...

She was the one saying Germans in UK / Brits in Germany should be treated like any American etc. (Her argument already falls apart since Turks are not treated like Americans anyway). 

 

I'm the one saying both Germans in UK and Brits in Germany shoud reciprocate cost-free fees, since they exercised treaty rights before Brexit. Neither Americans nor Turks exercised those treaty rights.

 

We all age. Most of the parents and relatives of British in Germany / British in Europe / Germans in UK / EU27 in UK have parents and relatives in their country of origin of advanced age. The time window for Brits in EU/Germany to be absent outside the country without losing their status is a mere 6 months. That's 54 months shorter than EU27 in UK.

 

EU27 in UK have a full FIVE YEARS to be outside the UK without losing their status to care for.

- Before, during, after terminal illness of relative

- Execute wills and tie up affairs.

 

It is not outrageous, scandalous or illogical to offer the same validity time periods if absent from host country, to British in Europe/Germany, as Germans/EU27 in UK. ie absence of up to 5 years allowed.

 

Though I'm half expecting some kind of counter argument from you in which you think the deathbeds of relatives of Germans/EU27 in UK, matter more, and deserve more time to tie up affairs than the deathbeds of British in Europe relatives. They don't - they should both be equal and reciprocate the most generous timeline offered - which ever is greater, since everyone exercised their treaty rights.

 

I'll take a stab in the dark guess that a large slice of Brits in EU and EU27 in UK are in, or approaching, their forties. The graveyard years when invitations to weddings decline, and invitations to funerals increase. 

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9 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

She was the one saying it Germans in UK / Brits in Germany should be treated like any American etc.

 

Indeed, and I agree.

 

Quote

I'm the one saying both Germans in UK and Brits in Germany shoud reciprocate cost-free fees, since they exercised treaty rights before Brexit.

 

Exactly. And we don't agree. And we have repeatedly asked you to point out when the Germans said that they would offer cost-free fees? Because reciprocity, in my book does ,not mean it needs to also be cost free. And according to Nina above, it hasn't been cost free for her German mum in the UK yet either.

 

 

ETA, to reflect your edits:

 

9 minutes ago, europaeuropa said:

Her argument already falls apart since Turks are not treated like Americans anyway

 

The point is that they can treat each non-EU nation as they like. The UK will be just another non-EU nation. We just have to deal with that.

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On 8/27/2019, 4:30:51, europaeuropa said:

For Brits, the NiederlassungsErlaubnis becomes invalid after 6 months absence from Germany. You may also have to pay fees.

 

However, Germans in UK with settled status have a much more generous FIVE YEARS to be absent from UK without losing their status. They also don't have to pay any application fees, unlike Brits in Germany.

 

In other words, Brits in Germany are getting a sh*t deal from this supposedly "generous" offer from the German government.

 

If it's cost-free and with generous validity terms for Germans in UK, it should also be cost-free and with equal validity terms for Brits in Germany.

 

If you read the input docs from non-CDU focus groups (Arbeitsamt, business, you name it), they all suggest Brits resident in Germany > 5 years should be given the equivalent of Daueraufenthaltserlaubnis-EU. The CDU blocked this suggestion and plumped for the "lower" Niederlassungserlaubnis :-(

 

Your profile claims you are irish. This is a lot if excitement for a hundred yoyos you are not going to pay yourself.

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Don't forget that the UK originally wanted to charge 65 GBP per adult, 32.50 per child, for applying for settlement status for each of the 3 million+ EU citizens in the UK.

Only after sufficient uproar did they drop the fee.

 

Also, citizenship application costs in the UK is > 1,200 GBP (> 1,000 for a child), compared to Germany's 255 Euros (51 Euros for children who apply with a parent).  

 

And UK Visa fee is also 95 GBP, compared to 60 Euros for a Schengen visa (both short stay).

And the UK also have a large list of different visa types including a "Settlement visa" to apply to stay with a family member which costs > 1,500 GBP per person (>1,000 if you apply from within the UK).

 

 

Fees for such services are seldom reciprocal in cost.

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6 minutes ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

Your profile claims you are irish. This is a lot if excitement for a hundred yoyos you are not going to pay yourself.

 

Somebody has to scrutinise things for balance. I'm that person.

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4 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Don't forget that the UK originally wanted to charge 65 GBP per adult, 32.50 per child, for applying for settlement status for each of the 3 million+ EU citizens in the UK.

Only after sufficient uproar did they drop the fee.

 

Also, citizenship application costs in the UK is > 1,200 GBP (> 1,000 for a child), compared to Germany's 255 Euros (51 Euros for children who apply with a parent).  

 

And UK Visa fee is also 95 GBP, compared to 60 Euros for a Schengen visa (both short stay).

And the UK also have a large list of different visa types including a "Settlement visa" to apply to stay with a family member which costs > 1,500 GBP per person (>1,000 if you apply from within the UK).

 

 

Fees for such services are seldom reciprocal in cost.

The fees were cancelled more than a year ago for EU27 in UK. Meaning the EU has had ample time to react accordingly, but jt hasn't. It will only be seen by Priti Nasty as ammunition to start charging EU27 in UK again. None of us want that, hence it's better EU reciprocate now before the witch takes action. And she will - she's only been in office days and has done a great deal of damage already.

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