My PhD supervisor fired me without notice within three months.

18 posts in this topic

Hi!

I have come to Germany to do my PhD with Marie Curie funding in June. My supervisors pushed me off topic to work as a full time developer and when they did not see good results within two months, they decided to fire me. Just called me in his office and said you are fired (without any prior warning), I was in provisional period. Ethically nobody guided me doing anything, just leave me on my desk and said you have to work on it. My questions are:

1. Can he just fired a PhD student when he came to do something else, but they throw something else to him (I did not receive any warning or career development plan)???

2. I have already went to Bundesagentur fur Arbeit office, they give me a clearance from their and as I did not work for 12 months, they forward me to the Job Search office. The job center agreed to help me finding new job, and suggested me to apply for unemployment benefit II.

3. On my "Zusatzblatt" paper it is mentioned why I have come to Germany and where I am working, so as I am going to be fired, how long I can legally stay in Germany for looking another job? Is it just three months? I have more than one year visa in my residence permit now, but I guess that should be invalid soon.

 

I do not know anybody, also cannot speak German. With all these I am super stressed, please give me some suggestion.  

 

 

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Does your university or research institute have a "Welcome Centre" or similar for international researchers? I would suggest asking their regarding your residence status and questions 2 and 3. Question 1 would be a question for your Personalrat (works council). The rules for public sector workers in Germany are broadly similar but do have regional and local twists. If your employer employees non German speakers then the Personalrat will be expecting questions also in English. Good luck!

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48 minutes ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

Hi Kommentarlos, thanks for your suggestion. So my PhD program is in cooperation with University; it means I would work in this research institute but the PhD would be declared by the university. As I have just come to Germany, I have also made my application to the university to get enrolled, but didn't hear from them yet. The university has a welcome center also AStA, but as I didn't received the enrollment confirmation, I don't know they will help me or not about 2 and 3. 

 

And for point  1, can I talk with anyone or organization who can give me some legal support? My key and ID card has taken from me, so even cannot go to the office.  

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4 hours ago, bimohan said:

I have come to Germany to do my PhD with Marie Curie funding in June.

 

Who applied for the funding? Did the university apply for the project and you had a position financed by the programme or did you apply for funding and then chose the university?

 

4 hours ago, bimohan said:

The job center agreed to help me finding new job, and suggested me to apply for unemployment benefit II.

 

DO NOT APPLY FOR ALGII! These are welfare benefits and will put your permit at risk.

 

4 hours ago, bimohan said:

3. On my "Zusatzblatt" paper it is mentioned why I have come to Germany and where I am working, so as I am going to be fired, how long I can legally stay in Germany for looking another job? Is it just three months? I have more than one year visa in my residence permit now, but I guess that should be invalid soon.

 

What exactly does your permit say? §16, §18, or §20?

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31 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

Who applied for the funding? Did the university apply for the project and you had a position financed by the programme or did you apply for funding and then chose the university?

Hi Engelchen, Your first question: The research institute had applied for the funding at Marie Curie funding with collaboration of a university, and then they hired me. My work had nothing to do with the university actually, I just worked as others do in that research institute. 

31 minutes ago, engelchen said:

DO NOT APPLY FOR ALGII! These are welfare benefits and will put your permit at risk.

That is really a very important advice you have given. I went to the Job center, and they gave me some application form and asked me filled and bring all other documents with it with an appointment time. So it should mean that I did not applied for the ALG II. right? Does it mean that if I apply for ALG II, I will have three months only to find a new job? If I fail to find job, then my residence permit will expire? But can I get help as a job seeker? I do not speak even good German, how can I find a job so fast in this unknown land!

31 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

What exactly does your permit say? §16, §18, or §20?

I had tried to figure it out, with a paper that the immigration office gave to me, it said something like nach §18 AufenthG bestellt. Is it bad?

31 minutes ago, engelchen said:

  

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Does it mean that if I apply for ALG II, I will have three months only to find a new job?

 

NO! Depending on what your permit says, you permit could become void if you apply for welfare (it depends on the conditions of your permit). Regardless, if you apply for welfare benefits the ABH could void your permit and make you leave. 

 

Quote

If I fail to find job, then my residence permit will expire? But can I get help as a job seeker? I do not speak even good German, how can I find a job so fast in this unknown land!

 

Unless you have special skills which are in demand here, it is unlikely that you'll find a job. 

 

Quote

I had tried to figure it out, with a paper that the immigration office gave to me, it said something like nach §18 AufenthG bestellt. Is it bad?

  

 

You are required to inform your local ABH that your employment has been terminated. 

 

Do you have sufficient funds (including health insurance) to remain in Germany and look for another job?

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, engelchen said:

Unless you have special skills which are in demand here, it is unlikely that you'll find a job. 

 

To be fair, he already had the special skills to get one job in DE. It is more likely than someone with no qualifications pitching up in DE for the first time. 

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25 minutes ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

To be fair, he already had the special skills to get one job in DE. It is more likely than someone with no qualifications pitching up in DE for the first time. 

 

I've met many foreign students/ PhD students who don't have skills needed on the German labour market. Paid research positions without contacts tend to take time. 

 

It all really depends on how long he can afford to stay to here while looking for a new position. 

 

 

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And also where he is looking and what his field is. Hessen is not the bleak streets of Berlin...

 

There are also other labs / research groups to be applied to. 

 

Paid research contracts take as long as the paperwork going in and the hosting agreement being generated. 

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Thank you very much guys, you all are giving me more and more deep knowledge about my situation. You know I am a foreigner, and about the rules and regulations, I had no idea at all. When I fall in this problem then thinking how to get rid of it. May be most of the people do this. My field is computer science, more precisely digital image processing. I would have some money to support myself for 3-4 months here; so after all of your suggestion, I decided not to take the Unemployment benefit II, but I will go to the Ausbildungsbegleitende Hilfen office. Can they tell me what should I do now legally or not also? 

 

You know first I was thinking if it was possible following the laws, because my supervisor really fired me unethically, and immorally. I just cannot agree with his this behavior. 

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19 minutes ago, bimohan said:

 I decided not to take the Unemployment benefit II, but I will go to the Ausbildungsbegleitende Hilfen office. Can they tell me what should I do now legally or not also? 

 

No, sorry. Their offer is aimed at trainees in need of support (in the dual training system, doing apprenticeships).  Your best bet at the moment is the university/Asta.

 

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52 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

No, sorry. Their offer is aimed at trainees in need of support (in the dual training system, doing apprenticeships).  Your best bet at the moment is the university/Asta.

 

Thanks, Yes, I joined the Innovative Training Network (ITN) under Marie Curie Research grant, and supposed to work on my PhD title. For first one month none of my supervisor meet me over an academic meeting to give me proper guideline, and at the beginning of second year, one supervisor just told me to work on software development and it should work as fast as possible. I gave them a draft result, but it was not what the expected and they fired me. No training, nothing.... , I heard about EStA, but point is that I sent my documents in the University for get enrolled, it is almost a month now, but did not receive any confirmation from them. In this situation could EStA able to give me any legal advice or suggestion? I am just moving in random direction in the dark, that's why thought at least I bring this in the forum that people can give me some suggestion. 

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1 hour ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

Do you know the the company ISRAVISION? Based originally in Darmstadt. 

 

https://www.isravision.com/en/isra/about-isra/

I sincerely appreciate your assistance, I checked with ISRA, currently seems no suitable opening. one senior also suggested me forgetting past, start fresh. So I am looking, but I am definitely sure it will be a long way, because I am in totally an unknown place, besides LinkedIn, monster or indeed, I have no personal contact here.

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1 hour ago, bimohan said:

 I heard about EStA,

 

You mean AStA?

 

1 hour ago, bimohan said:

 

but point is that I sent my documents in the University for get enrolled, it is almost a month now,

 

Yes, you've already written that - but right now is holiday season and at the TU there are no courses at the moment. And the offices are not fully occupied either. 

 

1 hour ago, bimohan said:

 In this situation could EStA able to give me any legal advice or suggestion? 

 

I don't know if the AStA in Darmstadt can help you, you have to find out for yourself. Take your application documents and anything else you have in writing with you and try it. 

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The Marie curie belongs to you, not to your supervisor. As far as I know, he cannot take it away from you. You would have to find another institution though. You should contact the coordinator of the project, and if that doesn't work, directly the responsible guy in the European commission

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26 minutes ago, anh said:

The Marie curie belongs to you, not to your supervisor. As far as I know, he cannot take it away from you. You would have to find another institution though. You should contact the coordinator of the project, and if that doesn't work, directly the responsible guy in the European commission

I also knew that, a senior researcher had told me that. I wrote in details about the situation and misbehave with reference and evidence in the next day my supervisor stopped me to work. But it is about 4 days even the project coordinator did not reply me. I asked the supervisor to give me written document the reason of my fire, but he also did not reply.  

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On 26.8.2019, 17:48:59, bimohan said:

You know first I was thinking if it was possible following the laws, because my supervisor really fired me unethically, and immorally. I just cannot agree with his this behavior. 

 

In Germany it possible for an employer to terminate a contract without giving a reason within the first 6 months.

 

Have you already contacted your Personalrat? I doubt that there is much they can do for you, but you might as well ask them. 

 

On 26.8.2019, 22:14:24, anh said:

The Marie curie belongs to you, not to your supervisor. As far as I know, he cannot take it away from you. You would have to find another institution though.

 

Are you sure? It does not seem to be an Individual Fellowship.

 

On 26.8.2019, 15:40:11, bimohan said:

The research institute had applied for the funding at Marie Curie funding with collaboration of a university, and then they hired me. My work had nothing to do with the university actually, I just worked as others do in that research institute. 

 

@bimohan

 

You really need to clarify the funding issue and determine whether it was awarded to you as an individual (meaning you just need to find another institution) or to the institute (and they can find someone else to fill the position).

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