Anlageberater forged our signatures

6 posts in this topic

Dear all,

 

I have a dispute with a fraudulent insurance agent (details here ).

This individual had also signed my wife and I up for Riester in January. In connection to the health insurance issue, I had the bank which has our Riester accounts send me copies of the applications. Immediately I noticed that none of the signatures on them are ours. They do not remotely match the specimen signature on our ID documents which were also enclosed. It appears that this individuals has forged our signatures at many places. Many of our personal info is also wrong. For example she has put me down as "Sachbearbeiter" in "Metallerzeugung and -bearbeitung" (wtf!?), I am "alleinstehend" whereas my wife is "verheiratet", both our email ids are wrong. My wifes cell number is also mine. Seems my wifes application didn't go in until April (she had told me she had forgotten to enclose the ID document) but somehow magically the premiums for Jan - March were debited from her account along with the April premium.

Now of course, the obvious question is : Did we sign an application for Riester. For the life of us, I cannot tell you for certain. I met this individual several times for several different paperwork during those weeks. I can remember her calculating us the Riester plan with the Höchstbetrag for us both. We did both of us honestly believe we had signed up once the papers came by post. In any case, whether we did or we did not, the copies I got from the bank were NOT signed by us.

A lawyer is already involved for the initial issue with the health insurance. When I informed him about the signatures on the Riester, he said

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wenn das wirklichn nicht Ihre Unterschriften sind, sollten wir nun aber wirklich Strafanzeige erstatten, um Frau xx aus dem Spiel zu nehmen. Das ist nicht mehr „nur“ ein zu beiläufig ausgefüllter Antrag oder eine Unstimmigkeit bei der Vermittlernummer

I know I could just go to the police to file a complaint, but since I already have a lawyer engaged, I am inclined to follow his advice. What I don't know yet, is how much it will cost me to have the lawyer file the criminal complaint. I know these costs won't be borne by my legal insurance.  I was hoping someone here knows. And how serious will the authorities take it?

 

Cheers

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Sorry, but that's nothing we can tell you without more information. Your lawyer might want to charge you by the hour or according to the "Streitwert", which he could, in turn, calculate according to the Riester payments you've made to date or to the total payments you're supposed to make over the life of the contract.

 

Why don't you ask him?

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I have asked him a couple of times. I will probably get an answer at some point but I don't want to ask him again. I was hoping someone here knows. Perhaps someone who speaks German legalese could help me translate what it says here or if it applies to me at all.

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Den Beschlussgründen lässt sich nicht entnehmen, welche Anwaltsvergütung der Verfügungskläger für die Fertigung der Strafanzeigen berechnet hatte. Die Fertigung einer Strafanzeige gehört nicht mehr zu den durch die Gebühren des Teils 3 VV RVG abgegoltenen Tätigkeiten des Prozessbevollmächtigten der Partei im Zivilprozess. Vielmehr wird hierdurch eine gesonderte Verfahrensgebühr nach Nr. 4302 Nr. 2 VV RVG mit einem Gebührenrahmen von 20 bis 250 EUR (Mittelgebühr: 135 EUR) ausgelöst, siehe KG JurBüro 1983, 1251 = AnwBl. 1983, 565; LAG Schleswig AGS 2001, 75 = AnwBl. 2001, 185 für die Vorgängerregelung des § 91 Nr. 1 BRAGO.

I was also interested to know if anyone can tell from experience if signature forgery is straightforward enough to prove.

29 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Your lawyer might want to charge you by the hour or according to the "Streitwert", which he could, in turn, calculate according to the Riester payments you've made to date or to the total payments you're supposed to make over the life of the contract

I imagine a Strafanzeige is then taken up by the Anwaltschaft and thus the costs are different than the civil lawsuit lawyer fees that are calculated from the RVG based on the "Streitwert", but I am not sure.

 
aaDen Beschlussgründen lässt sich nicht entnehmen, welche Anwaltsvergütung der Verfügungskläger für die Fertigung der Strafanzeigen berechnet hatte. Die Fertigung einer Strafanzeige gehört nicht mehr zu den durch die Gebühren des Teils 3 VV RVG abgegoltenen Tätigkeiten des Prozessbevollmächtigten der Partei im Zivilprozess. Vielmehr wird hierdurch eine gesonderte Verfahrensgebühr nach Nr. 4302 Nr. 2 VV RVG mit einem Gebührenrahmen von 20 bis 250 EUR (Mittelgebühr: 135 EUR) ausgelöst, siehe KG JurBüro 1983, 1251 = AnwBl. 1983, 565; LAG Schleswig AGS 2001, 75 = AnwBl. 2001, 185 für die Vorgängerregelung des § 91 Nr. 1 BRAGO
 
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There you go - it will cost anywhere between 20 and 250 euros (average fee: 135 euros).

 

You don't have to pay the costs of the district attorney.

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@Starshollow@john g. or anyone else who knows the industry:

Hoping you can answer this. With the Auftrag/Vollmacht I had given the GmbH, did this Vermittlerin who works for them as a freelancer have the authority to sign a Riester for me without my signature, even if I told her "hey, can you please sign me up for Riester"? My understanding was that the Vollmacht entitles her to to use my info to get offers on products, but she would need me to sign on the forms myself. With the exception being "Kleinbeträge" such as personal liability insurance etc. which is about 40-50 euros a year. When the lawyer read the Vollmacht, he said that the formulation of the text might entitle her to do just that, i.e. make contracts in my name. Even if this is true, I would have imagined she would need to sign her name "im Auftrag" and not try to copy my signature and my wifes. Also, my wife did not given her such a Vollmacht.

As of now, in response to my lawyers letter, the bank that I have the Riester with has said the contract still holds and they have asked for an explanation from the company that acted as the "Vermittler". The lawyer wrote me "Das Risiko läge hier in der Frage, ob die Bank (mit Frau xx als Zeugin) beweisen kann, dass ggf. Frau xx beauftragt und bevollmächtigt war, die Verträge ggf. für Sie abzuschließen." I must say, I am quite shocked. I thought forged signatures would be taken more seriously.

 

Thanks :)

 

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that would depend on the text of the Vollmacht/authorization. Without knowing it, I can't answer it, I am afraid.

Our own broker authorization document would allow exactly that (obviously based on the consent/order by the client which we would always require to be in writing - at least n email - to be absolutely clear about it and to avoid misunderstanding/misinterpretations later) 

 

Cheerio

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