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Bought counterfeit clothes

43 posts in this topic

7 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

See if you can withdraw the bank transfer, or talk to your bank.

That is worthwhile even if they can't get your money back, if possible get them to send a complaint to the sellers bank which could result in the account being closed but for sure will cause the seller problems.

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Was this a private purchase or was this a purchase with the intent of resale for a company?

 

If the latter.. I suggest you get the company lawyer involved aswell as the Zoll/Customs.. 

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20 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

I don't think the Zoll will help to get your money back, they will just investigate and can maybe shutdown the company.

 

See if you can withdraw the bank transfer, or talk to your bank.

I was at the bank and they told me that it's impossible to reverse a "überweisung". 

7 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

That is worthwhile even if they can't get your money back, if possible get them to send a complaint to the sellers bank which could result in the account being closed but for sure will cause the seller problems.

So I sent a complain to a sellers bank that he sold me counterfeit clothes? I can try this

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3 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Was this a private purchase or was this a purchase with the intent of resale for a company?

 

If the latter.. I suggest you get the company lawyer involved aswell as the Zoll/Customs.. 

Latter. I will go to customs today. I assume that verbraucherschutz doesn't apply to me right?

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I think Verbraucherzentrale would be the people to contact.  Here is their advice on what to do if you find you have been sold counterfeit stuff.  Including how you can report the company online to the police.  There is also a lot of stuff on the internet about dodgy companies.  If you google the company, do you get any hits?

 

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/digitale-welt/onlinehandel/abzocke-online-wie-erkenne-ich-fakeshops-im-internet-13166

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1 minute ago, snowingagain said:

I think Verbraucherzentrale would be the people to contact.  Here is their advice on what to do if you find you have been sold counterfeit stuff.  Including how you can report the company online to the police.  There is also a lot of stuff on the internet about dodgy companies.  If you google the company, do you get any hits?

 

https://www.verbraucherzentrale.de/wissen/digitale-welt/onlinehandel/abzocke-online-wie-erkenne-ich-fakeshops-im-internet-13166

On google I saw verbraucherschutz in Munich. Best thing is that I just go there and ask them.

 

This is what I found:

 

https://www.firmenwissen.com/en/az/firmeneintrag/10707/5191190426/ULTIMATE_VICTOR_LAJKO_UG_HAFTUNGSBESCHRAENKT.html

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Contacting Verbraucherschutz would be a waste of time - as the name implies, they work to protect consumers (Verbraucher). You're a business.

 

Bring the counterfeit goods to Customs and tell them everything about where you got them. If you're lucky, they'll be raided and shut down.

 

That still won't help you get your money back, unfortunately - you'll have to get a lawyer and sue them for that.

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1 hour ago, El Jeffo said:

Contacting Verbraucherschutz would be a waste of time - as the name implies, they work to protect consumers (Verbraucher). You're a business.

 

Bring the counterfeit goods to Customs and tell them everything about where you got them. If you're lucky, they'll be raided and shut down.

 

That still won't help you get your money back, unfortunately - you'll have to get a lawyer and sue them for that.

If I apply for rechtsschutz (which I will do anyway) now I can't do anything about this right? 

 

Or after rechtsschutz I buy again from this seller and then sue him? Buy maybe it's a dumb idea

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6 minutes ago, denisholc said:

... Buy maybe it's a dumb idea

 

Yes!

 

I would assume that if you bought goods knowing that they were counterfeit then you would not win your case!

 

And anything could happen in the meantime, such as going bankrupt, being closed down by Zoll etc.  Plus, at best you would only get back your money for the 2nd transaction.  You will then have the problem of trying to collect the money. 

 

Often, companies which do illegal activities like this are very short-lived.  They spring up, sell for a while, get shutdown.  Then the owners start another business doing the same or similar in another territory under another name!

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I was at the Customs now. They can't help me. I have to write an email.

 

Selling counterfeit goods is way to easy business in Germany.

 

I guess lawyer is the best thing now

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29 minutes ago, denisholc said:

I guess lawyer is the best thing now

 

For 700€ it is probably not worth going to a lawyer.

 

Have you tried contacting the owner of the trademark and informing them of what happened? They probably have a team of lawyers to deal with trademark infringement. Make it clear that you thought you were buying original merchandise. 

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15 hours ago, denisholc said:

I went to the police but they said that this is not their problem and they can't do anything about it. I told them 

that in this case I can also sell counterfeit clothes and they said yes. I thought that this is a crime.

 

 

indeed, it is a crime.  I can't speak from experience in Germany, but I can tell you in the U.S. that it is really hard to get law enforcement, or even a judge, interested in trademark counterfeiting or infringement no matter how blatant it is -- unless maybe pharmaceuticals are involved.  But, if you sell goods that you know are counterfeit then YOU are a counterfeiter.  Having bought them innocently from someone else doesn't absolve you, it just means you got burned. Sorry.

 

The party most likely to be interested, but also probably not likely to help you out financially, is the company that owns the subject trademark.  To find the German lawyer that handles that mark, try looking up the mark at the German trademark office, the DPMA.  Link to online search here:  https://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/einsteiger?lang=en

 

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59 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

For 700€ it is probably not worth going to a lawyer.

 

Have you tried contacting the owner of the trademark and informing them of what happened? They probably have a team of lawyers to deal with trademark infringement. Make it clear that you thought you were buying original merchandise. 

I did contact them. I've sent them name of the seller and pictures. Also the platform I bought also responded me and told me that they are investigating.

54 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

 

indeed, it is a crime.  I can't speak from experience in Germany, but I can tell you in the U.S. that it is really hard to get law enforcement, or even a judge, interested in trademark counterfeiting or infringement no matter how blatant it is -- unless maybe pharmaceuticals are involved.  But, if you sell goods that you know are counterfeit then YOU are a counterfeiter.  Having bought them innocently from someone else doesn't absolve you, it just means you got burned. Sorry.

 

The party most likely to be interested, but also probably not likely to help you out financially, is the company that owns the subject trademark.  To find the German lawyer that handles that mark, try looking up the mark at the German trademark office, the DPMA.  Link to online search here:  https://register.dpma.de/DPMAregister/marke/einsteiger?lang=en

 

Crime that doesn't get you punished or atleast they are slim chances. I'll search. Also did report them to the owner of the trademark

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This is fraud. Amazed at the disinterest of the customs and police when you present them with a gift on a plate. The law needs to be implemented, and so often it is not. I would feel like getting a journalist on the job to expose the inertia of the authorities.

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3 hours ago, optimista said:

Amazed at the disinterest of the customs and police when you present them with a gift on a plate. The law needs to be implemented,

 

police and judges will say "I have drug smuggling and "real" crimes to deal with where people actually get hurt."  That's not to say that one can't bring civil cases for trademark violations, one can, one just doesn't get a lot of sympathy from courts who think some businesses and fancy lawyers are wasting time that could be spent on "real" crimes. 

 

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20 hours ago, denisholc said:

When I received them I noticed that they are all counterfeit.

 


How did you determine they were counterfeit?  You've yet to say or detail that very important point.  In order for the Zoll to prove or disprove anything, it must be determined that they are either counterfeit or not.  A layman looking at an item doesn't prove anything.  They would need to take the clothing to either an expert or the manufacturer.  A purchaser's 'feelings' would not support it, should it come to an investigation or court.

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30 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

 

police and judges will say "I have drug smuggling and "real" crimes to deal with where people actually get hurt."  That's not to say that one can't bring civil cases for trademark violations, one can, one just doesn't get a lot of sympathy from courts who think some businesses and fancy lawyers are wasting time that could be spent on "real" crimes. 

 

So basically a law that says selling counterfeit goods is forbidden is rendered useless. In the future I shoud definitely think about buying clothes from china and selling here in Germany because nobody can touch me.

18 minutes ago, BayrischDude said:


How did you determine they were counterfeit?  You've yet to say or detail that very important point.  In order for the Zoll to prove or disprove anything, it must be determined that they are either counterfeit or not.  A layman looking at an item doesn't prove anything.  They would need to take the clothing to either an expert or the manufacturer.  A purchaser's 'feelings' would not support it, should it come to an investigation or court.

Quality is so bad that a blind man could determine that this is counterfeit. At the shop they also told me that is fake (although I don't think that this counts). 

 

Doesn't matter. I'll just get Rechtsschutz.

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23 minutes ago, denisholc said:

I'll just get Rechtsschutz.

Unless you get a very specific (and probably expensive) policy, your legal cost insurance will likely not cover B2B transactions.

 

Moreover, there is a 3-month waiting period before you can make any claims.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

Unless you get a very specific (and probably expensive) policy, your legal cost insurance will likely not cover B2B transactions.

 

Moreover, there is a 3-month waiting period before you can make any claims.

 

 

Even if I get Gewerbe Rechtsschutz?

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