Buy a "Grundstück" and build your own flat/house

23 posts in this topic

Hi,

 

I opened this on purpose here because I think that the area where you want to do this matters.

 

I hope that someone that already directly or indirectly experienced it can share his/her thought with me.

 

Me and my girlfriend want to buy an apartment here soon (not later than 2 years).

 

I was thinking to evaluate also the option of buy a Grundstuck and build our home. This will let us to save money and/or having a bigger apartment (we come from countries where 100 square meters is just the default standard option).

 

She is an inner arkitekt and she has experience in managing "internal" construction site. Also we count on the fact that thanks to the contacts she has in her work we can have access to trustable/qualified construction companies and not just making a bet in choosing one of them.

 

Of course we have a lot of doubts. For example there is a way to be sure that we will stay inside the budget ? I mean, a legal way to specify this in the contracts ? What are examples of things that can go wrong ?

 

Which kind of mortgage we can expect from the bank ? We just will have around 100-150k to put upfront, the rest will be all mortgage.

 

Any thoughts, opinion or useful links (also in german) are very welcome.

 

PS: I know that on this board there is who thinks that buyng a property in MUC are is a total no go but please this is not the topic of the thread :)

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Banks expect you to have 20-30% Eigenkapital. 700000€ from the bank?

You can't be sure to stay inside the budget, you even can't be sure to survive the next year.

Possible risks: during excavation they find a bomb: you will have to pay for disarming, it turns out your site is an archeological site: you pay. However, if the find a 200000 year old sceleton you have the right to name it. The could find that the ground is swampy, you have to pay for deeper excavation. Life doesn't come without risks.

You can specify almost anything in a contract, but you will have to find somebody to sign it.

These days construction companies are very busy. If your are lucky you find one, however, I doubt that they will accept all your clauses in a contract.

If a company is willing to accept such a small project nowerdays, why? How high is the risk that they deliver good work and/or don't go bancrupt?

(Luckily we bought a house 10 years ago)

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What we did wasn't build a new one but bought a pretty crappy place and did it up year on year. The "altbau" was built 1938 but it had a 1985 "neubau" extension. We have sort of renovated it like a Bavarian farmhouse - our Nolte kitchen we purchased was the least modern looking one and had an old fart in it sipping wine in the catalogue. 

 

Get the place liveable and do projects bathroom, kitchen one a year. We're still at it - a new wooden floor in the bedrooms is for autumn. 

 

If you are like me no good at building but good at stripping old stuff out you can save a lot by buying a trailer and carting the bauschrott to the tip yourself (I will be down there doing just this this afternoon!).

 

As for places to buy, the further off the Bahn lines the cheaper the town. 

 

Good luck.

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Surely as your  g/f is an architect and has contacts, then that is a better route to get more and better ideas and information rather than asking random people on the internet!

 

Surely she should have the knowledge, or access to people who do this professionally and hence have lots of experience.  Most people who have done this have often only ever done it once.  

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40 minutes ago, jeremytwo said:

our Nolte kitchen we purchased was the least modern looking one and had an old fart in it sipping wine in the catalogue. 

 

 Why couldn't you of just said 'Kitchen'?

 

You really leave yourself wide open for further attacks but that aside, I can understand why you bought it, you could see yourself sitting in it going by the catalogue.:lol:

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The trouble is, to get on Zuhause im Glück you must at least be suffering from some dread disease, have a severely handicapped child and your OH has collapsed and died after having started major renovations to your mould-infested house. Or some other jolly combination of dreadful circumstances.

No, Ab in die Ruine is the show to watch. Gung-ho would-be renovators buy a tumbledown place for nothing, and with a tiny budget and matching know-how attempt to turn it into a palace.

However, a dose of watching these programmes is very good for developing one's German vocabulary of technical building/decorating terms. And the financial and legal surprises that are uncovered with every blow of the hammer!

 

All the best to the OP. After all, people do actually build their homes quite successfully all the time. But it's wise to factor in costs for the seemingly inevitable and unwelcome surprises ...

(Raus aus den Schulden is the follow-up programme to learn from!)

 

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22 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Surely as your  g/f is an architect and has contacts, then that is a better route to get more and better ideas and information rather than asking random people on the internet! 

 

I am asking to everyone everywhere. And this forum is a part of this "everyone everywhere".

 

The more the feedbacks the better.

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1 hour ago, Frantic said:

 

How naive I have been, thinking that the thread could have gone off topic in that simple way...

 

...the ways of the thread Hijacking are infinite 

 

 

edit: I realize now that a moderator finally clean up the thread. Sorry for this post then, you can cancel it as well

Cleaned it up?! Damn, I go away for a few hours and have missed the salubrious posts:o

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On 7/4/2019, 1:30:34, Frantic said:

 

I was thinking to evaluate also the option of buy a Grundstuck and build our home. This will let us to save money and/or having a bigger apartment (we come from countries where 100 square meters is just the default standard option).

Save money? Don´t count on it. A colleague bought an old house, had 200k€ for renovating it, the contractor took 80k€ and during 9 months pretended to work. Did not pay his workers, never finished the job. My colleague had to move with his family of 4 to his mother´s house for 14 months, as he had told the landlord that he was leaving.

Never got his 80k€ back, lost perhaps 30k€ more on the delays, so all the "savings" are gone!

 

On 7/4/2019, 1:30:34, Frantic said:

 

She is an inner arkitekt and she has experience in managing "internal" construction site. Also we count on the fact that thanks to the contacts she has in her work we can have access to trustable/qualified construction companies and not just making a bet in choosing one of them.

Don´t mix pleasure with work.

 

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On 7/4/2019, 1:55:07, AnswerToLife42 said:

Possible risks: during excavation they find a bomb: you will have to pay for disarming,

Happened 300m away from me. The owner of the house has to pay 200.000€ for ordnance removing, which was found AFTER the house was built.

Now the whole neighborhood is trying to help her, as they could be next.

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What about asking a company offering turnkey solutions ("schlüsselfertig")? They often already have plots available (at least they had where I was living (lower Franconia)) and might accept at least some of the risks which come with construction. The guy who bought my property 2 months ago told me that he got a 30 years mortgage with a 1,8% interest rate (don´t know how much owner´s equity he had though).

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We bought a grundstuck last August, and the pre-fabricated house is supposed to be finished by end of July this year.  Obviously, it hasn't been finished, only the cellar is visible at the moment which the ceiling is pending to be closed.  

The constructor is not willing to communicate the timeline with us, and we are feeling very frustrated.  
Last week we went to the site, and noticed that another house is constructing in the neighbourhood.  They started digging the ground in July, the cellar has already finished, and they are working on putting up the walls on the ground floor as we were there last week.
We are trying to get a lawyer involved in this, hoping to end the contract with the existing constructor after the prefabricated house is delivered.

Wondering if anyone has similar experience to share.

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We also built our own house. 

Construction company was super professional. Until the moment we signed the contract, then they immediately turned out to be a nightmare.

 

What does the contract you signed say?🧐

 

Our contract stated that once the Gemeinde has approved the project (which takes up to 1month from submission), they have up to 10 weeks to start (I think there is some rule they have to write this in the contract). Our vendor promised in 25yr of experience they had never needed more than 5 weeks to start😊. Eventually it took 11weeks. 😬 At the end of the project, the Bauleiter told me they never manage to start in less than 10 weeks.😭 And once the project has started they have to to 8 months to complete it. Again: they must write this in the contract, and this 8 months get extended if there is bad weather, or other challenges... Again: at the start the vendor told me they never needed more than 5 months to finish, they eventually needed exactly 8 months. At the end the Bauleiter told me they always need exactly 8 months, 5 months would have simply been impossible.😰😭

 

Again:

what does your contract say?

 

Building, or better dealing with the lack of professionality of the construction industry, is notoriously a nightmare.

Unless you are an expert in the field (and you certainly are not, unless you work in it), they will take advantage of the fact they can very easily fool you.

Make sure you have your own Baubegleiter. If they know you have a Baubegleiter, an expert working in the field, paid directly by you to check things on your behalf and holding them accountable, they know they will face consequences if they try to fool you. Well worthed, best 2000 euro I ever spent.

 

Good luck.

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Some more:

in my experience, our company was super busy to do all the work in a realistic time. They knew that once the request was submitted to the Gemeinde they could no longer cause delay without facing consequences. So what did they do? They caused delays BEFORE submitting the project request to the Gemeinde. 

 

The project request cannot be submitted before everything (drawings, all specifications, whatever) has been agreed, by the constructor and the Bauherr. And the drawings can only be made by their achitect. But how long the architect takes for these drawings is NOT stated in the contract (rightly so, because it's work done together, by you + them and they of course have no control on your availability, change of opinions etc etc). So they drag their feet in making the drawings. You have no leverage in that. The know they can simply say: "sorry our architect is very busy right now...". They promised us 1 month to make the drawings, it took 4 months.

 

Worse still: once we finally agreed on all the fine details of the drawings and the application was signed by both parties, our vendor kindly volunteered to  bring the application to the Gemeinde personally himself. How kind. Later I accidentally learnt that on purpose this bastard kept our signed application in his drawer, and brought it to the Gemeinde not the very day we signed it, as he promised, but only a month later.

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At the risk of sounding like a scratched record (ie repeating myself), a property purchase is for most of us, the single most expensive purchase in our lives.

 

There are all sorts of technical and legal problems just waiting to trap you. TüV will lend you a Baugutachter (someone to guide you and be on your side). As @gambatte says, they're well worth the investment.

 

Preferably before you sign a contract (too late for this OP)

 

See the YouTube films for 'zu Hause im Glück' etc.

 

 

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Hi, as always say, not an expert, but a work colleague did similar.

She got a plot and bought one small prefab house, kind of this https://modulbau.wolfhaus.de/kompaktmodul (not with this company, just an example)...they basically showed up with 3 big trucks and in 4 days all was setup.

I don't know how cheaper was, but was easier than to build.

Just an idea. 

Good luck!

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A few years ago, my stepson had a Fertighaus built in a week. Not so small either. 

 

Sure there was some waiting time after buying the property for it.

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Sorry guys but I think Fertighäuser being faster is a myth.

What took time in our case was not building the walls etc.

Was waiting for all the various Handwerker (electricians, plumbers, doors, windows, etc etc) to come in turn at their time. There is severe shortage of these workers, so even if you opt for Fertighäuser you are basically forced to join the same waiting lists. What you save is the time it takes for the cement to dry, but this is only few days, not 2 years.

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I watched a single floor tiny house go up week by week as I walked the dog by a place near to me. The girl who bought the land I saw first when she was driving one of those tiny micro diggers. House was built over a period of a year and gradually, bit by bit it became more liveable. Finally she moved in. I never saw builders there, only the girl fixing and building the little wooden house, as far as I could see mostly by herself. Presumably someone connected the electricity and water, but heating you can see is by wood, with a tiny cabin wood burning stove. I guess if you are a carpenter or like building, as long as you comply with the relevant regulations, it's not so hard to build something akin to a large garden house. After all it often comes in kit form, and something more liveable like a log cabin I presume is also available to pre-order and assemble on site.

 

Compare this with the house going up next door. Crane. Concrete construction. Three floors and cellar. Multiple building companies. They will have a family there, but it must cost a fortune to construct from scratch everything if paying someone. As an example, I once asked a garden company to quote for something. Hourly rate was twice what I earn as an IT guy, so honestly it's better sometimes to do it yourself or learn how to.

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Tiny House? How tiny? (m2)

 

Usually a Tiny House is on wheels, like a trailer home. I did see an article about such Tiny Houses, starting price €120k😕

 

Does a wooden dwelling last many decades, like a stone or concrete one? I fear not.

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