EU Bluecard and previous years in other EU country

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Good afternoon. I am a South African who arrived in the Netherlands in January 2018 on a knowledge migrant visa. My aim is primarily to get permanent residency in the EU. I have an opportunity to work in Germany under better conditions, and would like to know if the (almost) 2 years already spent in an EU country might count towards the time required (24 months?) to get residency in Germany via the Blue Card scheme. I can speak German on B1 level. Thanks in advance for your comments!

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No, they will not count. Why do you need specifically permanent residency?

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Thanks for the reply.

 

In short, we moved to the EU because of the deteriorating social situation in SA and to offer our kids more security and better schooling. SO the number 1 priority on our list is to settle in a country where we can get permanent residency as soon as possible - because going back to SA at this stage is not really an option we want to consider. We still have to stay another 3 yeas in the Netherlands before we can apply for residency though. I do not want to lose the 2 years we've already stayed here and will have to factor it into any decision on where we go in future.

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In short, we moved to the EU because of the deteriorating social situation in SA and to offer our kids more security and better schooling.

 

How old are your children? If education is your most important criterion for choosing a country, Germany shouldn't be at the top of your list (and for older children it shouldn't even make your list).

 

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SO the number 1 priority on our list is to settle in a country where we can get permanent residency as soon as possible - because going back to SA at this stage is not really an option we want to consider. We still have to stay another 3 yeas in the Netherlands before we can apply for residency though. I do not want to lose the 2 years we've already stayed here and will have to factor it into any decision on where we go in future.

 

You are probably putting too much importance on permanent residency. 

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1 hour ago, nelajd said:

We still have to stay another 3 yeas in the Netherlands before we can apply for residency though. I do not want to lose the 2 years we've already stayed here and will have to factor it into any decision on where we go in future.

 

3 years later, you can also apply for the citizenship, if interested. If you are working at a high skilled job, it might be financially more advantageous to be in the Netherlands, because of the 30% ruling (for the first 5 years). It is also much easier to get by with english there in comparison with Germany.

 

1 hour ago, engelchen said:

If education is your most important criterion for choosing a country, Germany shouldn't be at the top of your list (and for older children it shouldn't even make your list).

 

Could you please elaborate a bit? Do you think education in Germany is bad?

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Could you please elaborate a bit? Do you think education in Germany is bad?

 

It is not just my opinion, but rather many international multi-country studies have found the German educational system to be barely mediocre. Furthermore, it is a generally established fact that a child's success in the German educational system has more to do with the family's socioeconomic position than the child's actual ability. The children of foreigners and blue collar workers tend to perform significantly worse than their peers.

 

 

https://www.oecd.org/berlin/presse/jugendliche-mit-migrationshintergrund-profitieren-noch-nicht-genug-vom-aufschwung-am-arbeitsmarkt.htm

 

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bildung/pisa-migranten-deutsche-schulen-1.3912112

 

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The status of someone who works in Germany as a Blue Card holder isn't that different from the permanent residency. You can't be denied an extension of residence permit and the eventual permanent residency after 21/33 months. You also can't be discriminated against and can  change jobs or receive the standard unemployment insurance (ALG I). 

 

The difference with permanent residency is mostly relevant if you will be unemployed for a long time or try to get a multi-year credit from a bank. Note that normal permanent residency is after 5 years (I believe EU-wide) and you already know yourself that Germany will provide an expedited way after 21 months (but the expedited way to citizenship still takes 6 years). 

 

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On 7/5/2019, 10:14:43, engelchen said:

 

 

It is not just my opinion, but rather many international multi-country studies have found the German educational system to be barely mediocre. Furthermore, it is a generally established fact that a child's success in the German educational system has more to do with the family's socioeconomic position than the child's actual ability. The children of foreigners and blue collar workers tend to perform significantly worse than their peers.

 

 

https://www.oecd.org/berlin/presse/jugendliche-mit-migrationshintergrund-profitieren-noch-nicht-genug-vom-aufschwung-am-arbeitsmarkt.htm

 

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/bildung/pisa-migranten-deutsche-schulen-1.3912112

 

 

To be fair, I believe that most of the difference is attributable to the educational level of the parents, which shouldn't be an issue here.

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3 minutes ago, ilyann said:

 

To be fair, I believe that most of the difference is attributable to the educational level of the parents, which shouldn't be an issue here.

 

No, it is not.

 

The German educational system is designed assuming children have support and assistance at home. Furthermore, inferior German skills have a negative influence on all subjects. Foreign parents who can't even speak German do not have the ability to assist their children.

 

It is possible for foreign children who move to Germany when they are young to learn sufficient German to succeed in school, however, it is not something that can be taken for granted. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, engelchen said:

No, it is not.

 

The German educational system is designed assuming children have support and assistance at home. Furthermore, inferior German skills have a negative influence on all subjects. Foreign parents who can't even speak German do not have the ability to assist their children.

 

Your comments lead me to do a short research at where i work :). I asked my German colleagues, how much help they received from their parents for their home works and exam preparations, and their reply without a single exception was "nothing". These are all mechanical engineers who are graduates of German universities.

 

I acknowledge the fact that my small circle may not be representative, and the educational system is different in each German state, but i also have a similar view with ilyann with regards to the case of the OP.

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42 minutes ago, TurMech said:

Your comments lead me to do a short research at where i work :). I asked my German colleagues, how much help they received from their parents for their home works and exam preparations, and their reply without a single exception was "nothing". These are all mechanical engineers who are graduates of German universities.

 

Your privileged German colleagues obviously didn't notice how much help they received. If nothing else, I'm willing to bet that their German parents corrected their German when they made mistakes.

 

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I acknowledge the fact that my small circle may not be representative, and the educational system is different in each German state, but i also have a similar view with ilyann with regards to the case of the OP.

 

Your sample is neither representative nor unbiased. 

 

Here are a few more interesting articles for you to read:

 

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/beruf-chance/campus/schlechte-noten-in-grundschule-wegen-auslaendischer-namen-15705522.html

 

https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/integration-an-manchen-schulen-bleiben-migrantenkinder-fast-unter-sich-a-1200736.html

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6 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

No, it is not.

 

The German educational system is designed assuming children have support and assistance at home. Furthermore, inferior German skills have a negative influence on all subjects. Foreign parents who can't even speak German do not have the ability to assist their children.

 

It is possible for foreign children who move to Germany when they are young to learn sufficient German to succeed in school, however, it is not something that can be taken for granted. 

 

 

 

I do not really think that we are disagreeing here. The original poster in this thread, @nelajd, mentioned he or she speaks B1 and is on skilled migrant visa, so that's why I don't expect this to be a problem for him or her.

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4 hours ago, ilyann said:

 

I do not really think that we are disagreeing here.

 

We are most definitely disagreeing!

 

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The original poster in this thread, @nelajd, mentioned he or she speaks B1 and is on skilled migrant visa, so that's why I don't expect this to be a problem for him or her.

 

Exactly what makes you so sure that his kids wouldn't have a problem here?!?!?! You don't even know how old they are or whether or not they have any disabilities. 

 

Furthermore, B1 German is sufficient to flip burgers, but is not sufficient for him to even attempt to talk to his kids in German nor is it sufficient to argue with teachers if the kids need more support at school. There is really nothing in his profile to assume that his kids would do well here.

 

 

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I agree with @engelchen, children who went on to the Gymnasium had help from their parents (usually the mum) to get there (at least in Bavaria).

 

My mum did Diktate with me in the evening during elementary school, to get my error rate to under 2%:

and I never was an academic slacker:

 

Please also read: 

 

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1 hour ago, engelchen said:

Furthermore, B1 German is sufficient to flip burgers, but is not sufficient for him to even attempt to talk to his kids in German nor is it sufficient to argue with teachers if the kids need more support at school.

 

That's a good one! 

You don't argue with teachers, and the system here is "swim or sink".

 

Kids either make it on their own (with the occasional bit of help from their parents), or the parents have to pay for Nachilfe (private tuition).

But you won't get extra support from the teacher.

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On 9.7.2019, 21:23:03, PandaMunich said:

You don't argue with teachers, and the system here is "swim or sink".

 

You are not supposed to argue with teachers here (or doctors, Beamte, etc).

 

On the other hand German helicopter parents have a way of manipulating the system to the advantage of their children. Foreigners who can't speak German (and B1 pretty much still falls under can't really speak German) and don't understand how the system even works, can't provide these advantages to their children.

 

On 9.7.2019, 21:23:03, PandaMunich said:

Kids either make it on their own (with the occasional bit of help from their parents), or the parents have to pay for Nachilfe (private tuition).

But you won't get extra support from the teacher.

THEORETICALLY there is extra support available to children who can’t speak German. The federal government’s own website even mentions this and makes it sound as if this support is widely and adequately available across the country.

In reality education is the responsibility of the Länder and most schools do not have sufficient funds to offer adequate support to all students and even if school budgets were to be increased exponentially, it wouldn’t solve the problem that there are not enough teachers and support staff available to meet the needs of all foreign students. 

 

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If your children are not yet fluent in German, make sure that the school offers German classes, usually referred to as "German as a foreign language." Here the teachers will make sure that your child understands the lessons and can keep up with the curriculum.

Source: Make it in Germany (The federal government's propaganda portal)

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