Climate change in Germany - Frankfurt 100F on Wed

87 posts in this topic

51 minutes ago, Leman said:

 

I tried a sample of "beyond meat" at the market and it did not taste

like beef to me.  I did not like it.   I read that it is higher in saturated

fat than real beef and is not better for you health wise. 

 

More Fat + Costs more + Doesn't taste like meat = I won't buy it.

 

And I had high hopes "beyond meat" would be a healthier option

that tastes like real beef so I could eat less meat.

 

Red meat a few times per week is like health food.   Meat in general is not unhealthy.   

 

Saturated fat in moderation is not unhealthy - excessive carbs and sugars are.   

 

 

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Red meat is never unhealthy, it´s the greenish-slimy-furry meat that does you.

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16 minutes ago, Lavender Rain said:

Beyond Burger has 22 ingredients, so I consider this product to be an overly processed food product containing some artificial ingredients. 

 

I do believe all the studies say that eating processed food increases your risk of developing cancer.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/cancer/eating-highly-processed-foods-may-raise-cancer-risk

 

The Beef Industry could have a field day using an ad campaign to expose these plant burgers

as highly processed foods which medical studies agree increases the chances of developing

cancer.    I personally avoid processed foods at all costs.  I skip the can and box aisles and stick

to the vegetable, fruit, meat, and cheese aisles.  Oh and the beer aisle too.

 

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37 minutes ago, slammer said:

Red meat is never unhealthy, it´s the greenish-slimy-furry meat that does you.

 

I thought they charge double for that in high end steakhouses?

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1 hour ago, slammer said:

Red meat is never unhealthy, it´s the greenish-slimy-furry meat that does you.

 

What are you referring too?  Spoiled meat or the Green Vegan Burgers

I saw at US Aldi's ?

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15 hours ago, Leman said:

 

I was hoping to read more about what European Scientists were saying about climate change,

how bad it is, and what will happen because in the US this is rarely discussed on the TV or

among ourselves.  Everyone is too busy trying to keep their jobs and survive to think about it

and it seems the TV avoids the topic.   

 

While I do think slammer's post is dark, I do agree we are going to eat ourselves out of a planet. 

The population needs to shrink.  A 1 baby limit for 50 years would be prudent.

 

I too (at the risk of being called a nut) am starting to consider that we may live in a closed system.

 

 

While your point makes sense, its just not practical.

 

If you tell a mother, that her child should only have one child of less because of climate change issues, they would probably cut your throat, than agree with you.

 

Seems to me, most people men and women, come together in some form of relationship to have children, its one of the most basic human instincts - a rational argument is hardly going to change that.

 

In general, most western country's have  a much slower birth rate than in ( for example ) Africa - where the population  is growing all the time. I see many adverts, showing African kids drinking water that's so polluted that makes then sick, then they ask for cash to dig a new well so the kids can drink clean water and survive - which keeps people alive and to a better standard of life - who is not going to agree to this ?.  But then the population of the earth gets bigger and bigger.

 

I think because of basic human instincts,  we will carry on the way we are, and the that there will be a hard correction at some point in future - where a lot of people will die and that's sad, but sadly un avoidable.

 

And yes, I will still eat meat and fly and pollute just as much as everybody else does

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Leman said:

 

The population needs to shrink.  A 1 baby limit for 50 years would be prudent.

 

 

The economy of the Western countries will collapse if the population decreases.   First you have to change the whole economic model.

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17 hours ago, Leman said:

 

I was hoping to read more about what European Scientists were saying about climate change,

how bad it is, and what will happen because in the US this is rarely discussed on the TV or

among ourselves.  Everyone is too busy trying to keep their jobs and survive to think about it

and it seems the TV avoids the topic.   

 

While I do think slammer's post is dark, I do agree we are going to eat ourselves out of a planet. 

The population needs to shrink.  A 1 baby limit for 50 years would be prudent.

 

I too (at the risk of being called a nut) am starting to consider that we may live in a closed system.

 

20 hours ago, BayrischDude said:


Of course not dead...but health issues in the long term.  The same could be said for anyone who strictly only eats meat.  As I often say during these types discussions, is that we are all unique.  What works for me, isn't going to work for the next 100 or more people.  I do eat meat near on daily.  There are days where my only source of protein might be from things like milk products (cottage cheese or handkäs).

As an example, my Heilpraktiker is 6 months younger (55) and a vegetarian.  I eat meat near daily.  His harnstoff levels are higher than mine and it bugs him to no end.  Also my cholesterol levels are lower.  So, either I am simply the odd duck or his health is dodgy. 

If certain things in my blood showed I needed to change my diet, I would.  No question.  Another mate is a vegan.  He has serious health issues (shortage of B12 and iron), which tablets are not helping.  He won't budge, sadly. 

I find it admirable to the cause of vegans. I do.  But not to the detriment of our own health and well being. 

On 27.6.2019, 09:16:11, yesterday said:

yeah well, I think a lot of people may die over climate change, near the sea etc, but I would imagine that some place will still be a live, Northern Canada, Northern Europe/asia etc - enough will survive that the race will continue.

 

However, drivin home yesterday, with an indicated  outside temperature of 33 degs, yes I did put the A/C on - just adding my bit to climate change.

Oh I don´t doubt that enough will survive, humans are simply too bloody minded to turn their toes up and die, but they won´t be the same, in some way they will have changed, maybe, just maybe this change will be the next step in our evolution.

 

But far, far worst is that you put the AC on at only 33°... YOU MONSTER!!

 

 

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The scientific consensus is that global warming is already having a negative effect on the biosphere.

 

In short we are screwed and from this point on all we can do is try to manage the worst of the effects as good as we can, from now on it´s damage control and not prevention.

 

We still have a chance to halt global warming but that window is rapidly closing and the sacrifice it would take to at least halt at this level will be heartbreaking. For one we would have to revert to a low-energy society, basically revert back to the 17th century and cull at least two thirds of the population. Either we do this and keep at least a bit of civilization or our endpoint will be back in the stone age.

 

We do not yet have the technology to both save our biosphere and continue with a “western” type society, also we are rapidly running out of the raw materials to do build the tech that we would need.

 

Oil has peaked, and we are now on the other side of the Hubbert curve and well into the slow decline part, at the moment we are shoring up with fracking and other extreme methods of oil production but in the end these will also decline untill Oil is no longer a valid energy source but an energy sink, meaning the calories invested outweigh the calories gained.

 

Iron, there is no longer any easy minable ore on the surface of the planet as well as the other minerals and metals needed to keep our society working.

 

The demand for energy is growing faster that it can be produced

 

Water degradation and soil degradation will be the final straw.

 

The decline of oil and coal is going to be the big one, without a cheap and abundant and scalable source of energy there is no human civilization, there is simply nothing else with the same energy density, that is one of the reasons why politicians and the captains of industry don´t like to talk about it, especially in the US. They have no choice, they are taking the severe environmental consequences of burning fossil fuels in account and weighing it against our way of life, but do not doubt for a second that they don´t see the writing on the wall, they do, but they know that…

 

 

 

…When oil goes, we go, it´s that simple.

 

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1 hour ago, slammer said:

The decline of oil and coal is going to be the big one, without a cheap and abundant and scalable source of energy there is no human civilization, there is simply nothing else with the same energy density,

 

…When oil goes, we go, it´s that simple.

 

 

 

 

atomic

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6 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

 

atomic

Atomic what? You still Need hydrocarbons to Build and maintain a nuke plant and you  cant drive a truck on atoms. Food, medicine water Transport etc. etc. all depend on oil

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1 hour ago, slammer said:

Oil has peaked, and we are now on the other side of the Hubbert curve and well into the slow decline part, at the moment we are shoring up with fracking and other extreme methods of oil production but in the end these will also decline untill Oil is no longer a valid energy source but an energy sink, meaning the calories invested outweigh the calories gained.

...

The demand for energy is growing faster that it can be produced

 

The decline of oil and coal is going to be the big one, without a cheap and abundant and scalable source of energy there is no human civilization, there is simply nothing else with the same energy density, that is one of the reasons why politicians and the captains of industry don´t like to talk about it, especially in the US. They have no choice, they are taking the severe environmental consequences of burning fossil fuels in account and weighing it against our way of life, but do not doubt for a second that they don´t see the writing on the wall, they do, but they know that…

 

I had the impression that Hubbert's peak has been discredited.   In addition to the very light, sweet crude oil being produced via shale in the US, there is a lot of goopy stuff from Canada and Venezuela which has little demand. 

 

The US currently has enough shale gas to meet domestic demand for the next 150 years. 

 

The abundance of cheap shale gas in the US has helped bring down greenhouse gas emissions via displacement of coal since 2005.   

 

With respect to energy supply, i am optimistic.    

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18 hours ago, Leman said:

I tried a sample of "beyond meat" at the market and it did not taste

like beef to me.  I did not like it.   I read that it is higher in saturated

fat than real beef and is not better for you health wise. 

Myself and my wife tried the beyond meat beyond burger, and yeah deffo didn't taste like beef at all, but after 2-3 bites we both super liked it and said we'd get more sometime.

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18 hours ago, Leman said:

 

I tried a sample of "beyond meat" at the market and it did not taste

like beef to me.  I did not like it.   I read that it is higher in saturated

fat than real beef and is not better for you health wise. 

 

More Fat + Costs more + Doesn't taste like meat = I won't buy it.

 

And I had high hopes "beyond meat" would be a healthier option

that tastes like real beef so I could eat less meat

Nutrition wise it's similar to beef, running a little lower on calories and saturated fat dependent on the cut of beef. It's not a health food, it's more about the environmental factor.

It's difficult to evaluate if you've only had a sample, it's terrible if cooked further than medium and you need the rest of the burger for the experience. The version at Honest Burger uses a big mac-like sauce and this together with the bun and toppings make it really difficult to tell it's not beef if you were not told in advance. You'd most likely put the discernible difference down to varying quality of fast food meat.

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It's was 36C for the last 3 days where I live in Florida, US and

that's about as hot as I have ever seen it where I live.  But that

is only 3 degrees warmer than the 100 year average temp for June.

 

This Sunday, Frankfurt is forecast to reach 39.4C and that is 15.4

degrees higher than the 100 year average June temp for Frankfurt.

(lucky you)  My original point was that it seems Germany's

Climate change seems way more drastic than the US and I am

curious why Germany (and Europe) is so drastically effected. 

 

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My home town in Florida had temps in the 100s for all of last week...

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12 minutes ago, Metall said:

My home town in Florida had temps in the 100s for all of last week...

 

I am in a subburb just north of Tampa.  The last 3 days were the hotest

of the year.  Tampa was actually 1c degree cooler the last 3 days at 35c.

 

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8 hours ago, balticus said:

 

I had the impression that Hubbert's peak has been discredited.   In addition to the very light, sweet crude oil being produced via shale in the US, there is a lot of goopy stuff from Canada and Venezuela which has little demand. 

 

The US currently has enough shale gas to meet domestic demand for the next 150 years. 

 

The abundance of cheap shale gas in the US has helped bring down greenhouse gas emissions via displacement of coal since 2005.   

 

With respect to energy supply, i am optimistic.    

Discredited? It depends on who you ask. Fact is the Hubbert curve is not symmetrical, if you get past the peak it will allow for new technologies for extraction and it also takes unfound or unexploited sources into account. This flattens the curve a little but the end result is the same... At some point oil as an energy source will be finished. Don´t get me wrong there is enough oil for centuries at current rate, if we could get to it, but we lack the technology to extract it economically and that is the issue. Shale, oil,- and tar-sands also have a horrendous ecological impact to take into mind as does fracking, literally blowing up strata to get to hydrocarbons is unsustainable as a long term solution.

Even at best guess our main energy source will last another hundred years, two hundred years, three or even four centuries from now, but at some point it will be gone and our civilization will fail.

Thing is with our current understanding of physics and chemistry, yadda, yadda, yadda there is nothing even remotely close to be not only an energy source but the basics for our modern civilization.

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9 hours ago, malcolmpow said:

Myself and my wife tried the beyond meat beyond burger, and yeah deffo didn't taste like beef at all, but after 2-3 bites we both super liked it and said we'd get more sometime.

 

Can't imagine putting anything more depressing on my Weber Grill in the garden. Today we ate some acceptable Aldi ribs. Tomorrow it's off to the farm shop for some proper marinadeable chunks of real dead pig. If you don't use your grill often enough in this weather it gets rusty.

 

11 hours ago, slammer said:

Oil has peaked, and we are now on the other side of the Hubbert curve and well into the slow decline part, at the moment we are shoring up with fracking and other extreme methods of oil production but in the end these will also decline untill Oil is no longer a valid energy source but an energy sink, meaning the calories invested outweigh the calories gained.

 

No it hasn't. Turns out (sorry) the Saudis have way more than we realised. Carry on as you were. 

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10 hours ago, jeremytwo said:

 

Can't imagine putting anything more depressing on my Weber Grill in the garden. Today we ate some acceptable Aldi ribs. Tomorrow it's off to the farm shop for some proper marinadeable chunks of real dead pig. If you don't use your grill often enough in this weather it gets rusty.

 

 

No it hasn't. Turns out (sorry) the Saudis have way more than we realised. Carry on as you were. 

Do you have a link to this information?

There is a lot of confusion as to the total amount of reserves. The Saudis are notorious for over estimating the total amount and I would take their results with a pinch of salt. Their largest field, the Ghwar field has been by estimate in decline since 2010 as is the Burgan field in Kuwait since 2005. But even if the earth was a ball of oil covered by a mile of topsoil the environmental impact of burning oil will or is, or has caused climate change. We can argue what will happen first... Will the earth heat up so much that we get parboiled or will the oil run out?

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