Elterngeld and Kindergeld for Non EU citizens "Blaue Karte"

20 posts in this topic

Hello everyone,


I went through most of the Elterngeld and Kindergeld discussions but I could not find clear answers for my case, I'm trying to catch as much as I can, unfortunately my legal German is not so good. I really appreciate if you can help me even recommending links to continue reading.

I'm working as a software engineer with unlimited contract since 2018 but still didn't get the permanent resident "I hold Blaue Karte which ends by 2022" and my wife relocated last year and she got "Aufenthaltserlaubnis" which allows her to work but she is focusing now on Deutsche as part of Integration course. And we don't receive any benefits from job center. My wife is pregnant and will give birth by start of next year.

 

  1. With my current case "Holding only Blaue Karte with unlimited work contract" and my wife "Aufenthaltserlaubnis", Can we apply for Elterngeld and Kindergeld?
    Elterngeld >> For my wife she can get 12 months EUR300 as the minimum wage since she is not working, and I can get 2 months if I needed to took parental leave or part time and then I'll get up to 67%..., Is that right?
    Kindergeld >> We can get EUR210 since the 1st month of the baby birth?
     
  2. Applying for both can be done after baby birth and getting the birth certificate from the hospital, so nothing to be done now?
     
  3. I heard a bout other benefits like Kinderzuschlag, Betreuungsgeld, Wohngeld, Haushaltshilfe.. I'm in the phase of gathering information about all of these benefits and check which is applicable for our case. Appreciate if some one did this already and can share his experience or any other recommendations.
     
  4. On the other hand, it's unscheduled pregnancy and our plan was to postpone this step for a while, so before knowing that I decided to move to a new employer and will start next month, should I inform them immediately? or should I wait till the end of the probationary period?
    >> If I decided to wait and inform them later then I'll not have 7 weeks left till birth, I signed the contract three months before knowing this pregnancy, but I don't have any credit yet to inform them about that in the 6 month probationary period, I'm afraid to loose my my job or at least loose my credibility!

    >> I may try to rely on yearly vacation budget instead of the Elterngeld.
     
  5. We are also considering giving birth in our home country with the family help there.. what about Elterngeld for my wife and Kindergeld in this case?

 

Is there a way to get a lawyer insurance or any other way to take care of these hassle? and help me or apply on behalf of me for these benefits? As I'm already handling a lot "Hebama, Hospitals, bla bla bla" + my new job.
 

Thank you very much for this great form :)

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1 hour ago, Egili said:

"I hold Blaue Karte which ends by 2022"

 

Considering you earn enough to qualify for a Blue Card and you currently only have a pregnant wife to support you are not considered low income. Even after your child is born, you are not eligible for welfare benefits.

 

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  1. I heard a bout other benefits like Kinderzuschlag, Betreuungsgeld, Wohngeld, Haushaltshilfe.. I'm in the phase of gathering information about all of these benefits and check which is applicable for our case. Appreciate if some one did this already and can share his experience or any other recommendations.

 

Forget it. The Kinderzuschlag and Wohngeld are social benefits for low income families. You are not eligible for Haushaltshilfe because even if your wife were to be bedridden, you can easily do the housework. The Herdprämie (aka Betreuungsgeld) is only available in Bavaria (where they want to keep women tied to the stove). Furthermore, you should send your kid to Kita when it is old enough in order for it to learn German.

 

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  1. We are also considering giving birth in our home country with the family help there.. what about Elterngeld for my wife and Kindergeld in this case?

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless your (non-EU) country has a social security agreement with Germany allowing it, you can't claim Kindergeld for a foreign child that is abroad. Elterngeld is only possible under certain circumstances while living abroad.

 

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Is there a way to get a lawyer insurance or any other way to take care of these hassle? and help me or apply on behalf of me for these benefits? As I'm already handling a lot "Hebama, Hospitals, bla bla bla" + my new job.

 

Why do you need a lawyer? You are not eligible for that many benefits, which means that you really don't have to fill in that many forms.

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37 minutes ago, Egili said:

Hello everyone,


 

  1. With my current case "Holding only Blaue Karte with unlimited work contract" and my wife "Aufenthaltserlaubnis", Can we apply for Elterngeld and Kindergeld?
    Elterngeld >> For my wife she can get 12 months EUR300 as the minimum wage since she is not working, and I can get 2 months if I needed to took parental leave or part time and then I'll get up to 67%..., Is that right?
    Kindergeld >> We can get EUR210 since the 1st month of the baby birth?

 

Eltergeld:

Yes, as you (and wife & child) are living and working in Germany then you are entitled to these benefits.

Assuming your wife will not work between now and birth, then she would qualify for the minimum amount which is 300 Euros, as you said.

You will qualify for 67% up to a maximum of 1,800 euros per month.  

 

You get 14 months to share between you as you wish with a single parent eligible to take a maximum of 12 months or a minimum of 2 months.  There is also "Elterngeld Plus" which allows you to change this up to double these amounts for half the money per month, and also allows you to work part time during this period.

More info here:

https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/parental_allowance.html

 

 

Kindergeld:

Yes, this is applicable from the first month of birth.  Be aware however, that it might take a while before you get any payments.  But you will be paid eventually for the whole period.  

 

44 minutes ago, Egili said:

2.  Applying for both can be done after baby birth and getting the birth certificate from the hospital, so nothing to be done now?
 

 

 

Basically yes.  You can of course prepare now.  You will for example need your marriage certificate.

 

46 minutes ago, Egili said:

 

4.   On the other hand, it's unscheduled pregnancy and our plan was to postpone this step for a while, so before knowing that I decided to move to a new employer and will start next month, should I inform them immediately? or should I wait till the end of the probationary period?
>> If I decided to wait and inform them later then I'll not have 7 weeks left till birth, I signed the contract three months before knowing this pregnancy, but I don't have any credit yet to inform them about that in the 6 month probationary period, I'm afraid to loose my my job or at least loose my credibility!

>> I may try to rely on yearly vacation budget instead of the Elterngeld.

:)

 

 

As you are the father.  Then you don't need to inform them at all until 7 - 8 weeks before you intend to start your Elternzeit period.  So you are under no obligation to inform them beforehand.  You can take this up to 3 years after the birth of the child, so it does not have to be directly after the birth. 

 

So if you are very worried about this, then why not delay and take this later?  A lot of fathers take it after 12 months when the mother first goes back to work for example.

 

 

 

54 minutes ago, Egili said:

5. We are also considering giving birth in our home country with the family help there.. what about Elterngeld for my wife and Kindergeld in this case?

 

 

 

Basically nothing!

The family must be living and working in Germany to receive these benefits.  But there is nothing stopping you from visiting family for 2 months or something on holiday!

 

Also, consider that there might be complications with airlines etc.  Each airline has a different policy, so you would need to check explicitly.  But it is common that most require a certificate from a doctor if more than 28 weeks pregnant (less if there are complications or multiple kids expected!), and won't fly a child less than 2 weeks old (can be more if the child was premature, or mother had complications or a C-sections etc.).

Medical /travel insurance may also not cover such things.

 

 

1 hour ago, Egili said:

 

Is there a way to get a lawyer insurance or any other way to take care of these hassle? and help me or apply on behalf of me for these benefits? As I'm already handling a lot "Hebama, Hospitals, bla bla bla" + my new job.
 

 

 

These are not legal matters, so no insurance will cover the cost of paying somebody to do what is basically your job as a parent to-be!   Trust me, this is not hassle or complication and is just the start of the hoops that you will have to (and be willing to) jump through for the sake of your child!  

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

Considering you earn enough to qualify for a Blue Card and you currently only have a pregnant wife to support you are not considered low income. Even after your child is born, you are not eligible for welfare benefits.

 

 

Forget it. The Kinderzuschlag and Wohngeld are social benefits for low income families. You are not eligible for Haushaltshilfe because even if your wife were to be bedridden, you can easily do the housework. The Herdprämie (aka Betreuungsgeld) is only available in Bavaria (where they want to keep women tied to the stove). Furthermore, you should send your kid to Kita when it is old enough in order for it to learn German.

 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless your (non-EU) country has a social security agreement with Germany allowing it, you can't claim Kindergeld for a foreign child that is abroad. Elterngeld is only possible under certain circumstances.

 

 

Why do you need a lawyer? You are not eligible for that many benefits, which means that you really don't have to fill in that many forms.

Thanks for your reply and helpful information, but are you sure? as it doesn't make sense and I never found that Elterngeld and Kindergeld are allowed based on your income. So I believe it doesn't matter what's my current income. Even I used some online tools to calculate the excepted compensations and giving my previous 12 months net income I didn't get any errors!

Anyway, I'll do further search and check with friends. Thanks for your time and help.

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10 minutes ago, Egili said:

Thanks for your reply and helpful information, but are you sure? as it doesn't make sense and I never found that Elterngeld and Kindergeld are allowed based on your income.

 

Read my post again. Elterngeld and Kindergeld are not dependent on your income (unless you are in a very high income bracket), however, you have to look at the residence (Wohnsitz) rules if your wife wants to give birth in your/her home country.

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Thank you very much dj_jay_smith for your reply and helpful link, I appreciate your time indeed.

 

18 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Basically yes.  You can of course prepare now.  You will for example need your marriage certificate.

 

 

 

As you are the father.  Then you don't need to inform them at all until 7 - 8 weeks before you intend to start your Elternzeit period.  So you are under no obligation to inform them beforehand.  You can take this up to 3 years after the birth of the child, so it does not have to be directly after the birth. 

 

So if you are very worried about this, then why not delay and take this later?  A lot of fathers take it after 12 months when the mother first goes back to work for example.

 

 

Yes that would be the ideal plan for now, I'll rely on my annual vacations and delay the parental leave. Hope I'll still be able to support my wife during the first weeks with all these child checks U3-U9, ..etc

 

18 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

 

Basically nothing!

The family must be living and working in Germany to receive these benefits.  But there is nothing stopping you from visiting family for 2 months or something on holiday!

 

Also, consider that there might be complications with airlines etc.  Each airline has a different policy, so you would need to check explicitly.  But it is common that most require a certificate from a doctor if more than 28 weeks pregnant (less if there are complications or multiple kids expected!), and won't fly a child less than 2 weeks old (can be more if the child was premature, or mother had complications or a C-sections etc.).

Medical /travel insurance may also not cover such things.

 

 

This make sense, and I'll do my best to avoid this scenario, but just in case I found it to hard to handle my new job and my wife/child needs. Hopefully we can handle it.

 

18 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

These are not legal matters, so no insurance will cover the cost of paying somebody to do what is basically your job as a parent to-be!   Trust me, this is not hassle or complication and is just the start of the hoops that you will have to (and be willing to) jump through for the sake of your child!  

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your support words, have a great day :) 

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2 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Basically nothing!

The family must be living and working in Germany to receive these benefits.  But there is nothing stopping you from visiting family for 2 months or something on holiday!

 

Also, consider that there might be complications with airlines etc.  Each airline has a different policy, so you would need to check explicitly.  But it is common that most require a certificate from a doctor if more than 28 weeks pregnant (less if there are complications or multiple kids expected!), and won't fly a child less than 2 weeks old (can be more if the child was premature, or mother had complications or a C-sections etc.).

Medical /travel insurance may also not cover such things.

 

I have to disagree with you. 

 

According to the OP, he is Egyptian. Unless his wife is from a privileged country and the child inherits this citizenship, a foreign child born to a foreign mother in a foreign country will require a D Visum to enter Germany. Considering this requires first obtaining a birth certificate, then the child's passport before a visa can even be issued, if the OP's wife gives birth in Egypt, it'll probably take a few months before she can come to Germany with the new born. Furthermore, until they are here I don't see how they'd be eligible for Kindergeld.

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

I have to disagree with you. 

 

According to the OP, he is Egyptian. Unless his wife is from a privileged country and the child inherits this citizenship, a foreign child born to a foreign mother in a foreign country will require a D Visum to enter Germany. Considering this requires first obtaining a birth certificate, then the child's passport before a visa can even be issued, if the OP's wife gives birth in Egypt, it'll probably take a few months before she can come to Germany with the new born. Furthermore, until they are here I don't see how they'd be eligible for Kindergeld.

 

I think we are on the same page. That's what I got also from dj_jay_smith reply that he meant nothing as I'll not be eligible for any of these benefits till my wife/child get back and register again in Germany.

 

And you are right, In this scenario it'll take at least few months to go through the visa process again. Maybe at the end of the year I can claim some of my family expenses from taxes but not related to Elterngeld or Kindergeld.

But anyway, Giving birth in our home country is 'just in case' scenario, We will try first to check the possibilities "pros and cons" to handle this in our own and give birth in Germany and this is my major thinking now.

Thanks you engelchen :)

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12 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

 

I have to disagree with you. 

 

According to the OP, he is Egyptian. Unless his wife is from a privileged country and the child inherits this citizenship, a foreign child born to a foreign mother in a foreign country will require a D Visum to enter Germany. Considering this requires first obtaining a birth certificate, then the child's passport before a visa can even be issued, if the OP's wife gives birth in Egypt, it'll probably take a few months before she can come to Germany with the new born. Furthermore, until they are here I don't see how they'd be eligible for Kindergeld.

 

I don't think we disagree.  I stated that they would probably not be eligible for any benefits (although I have heard that Kindergeld is often paid even if the child is in another country, but don't know if this is just limited to the EU or has other conditions).

 

You have added another obstacle (getting a visa for the child born in another country) which I assumed would be OK if the rest of the family already had German visas (I also assumed that they would not be away long enough to lose this status).

 

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I have a bluecard too.

My both children born outside of the Eu. After we come here, we applied for Kindergeld and we receive it since then. For elterngeld, my wife came here two months after the birth, and we got Elterngeld for roughly 10 months. So as far as I know you should be here to get kindergeld and elterngel, you should be in Germany, but somepeople goes their home country after starting to receive those.

 

 

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2 hours ago, ferhatdegirmenci said:

I have a bluecard too.

My both children born outside of the Eu. After we come here, we applied for Kindergeld and we receive it since then. For elterngeld, my wife came here two months after the birth, and we got Elterngeld for roughly 10 months. So as far as I know you should be here to get kindergeld and elterngel, you should be in Germany, but somepeople goes their home country after starting to receive those.

 

 

Perfekt, and do I need the child passport to apply for the kindergeld/eltergeld, or is it just the hospital birth certificate? 

 

Thank you. 

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15 hours ago, Egili said:

Perfekt, and do I need the child passport to apply for the kindergeld/eltergeld, or is it just the hospital birth certificate? 

 

Thank you. 

 

 

You need a birth certificate.  

 

You will not get an official birth certificate from the hospital, you will get some other confirmation (I can't recall what it is called) and you need to apply for a birth certificate from the Stadt where the child was born.  You have to fill in a form, hand in the paper you get from the hospital, your marriage certificate, and ID/passport of yourself and your wife.

The hospital where we had our daughter had an office from die Stadt where we could actually do this directly, which is very handy as then we didn't need to do a separate trip into town to do it (but not all hospitals offer this).

 

 

The birth certificate will then be sent to your home which might take a couple of weeks.

 

You will actually receive multiple birth certificates. 

One of which must be sent when you apply for Kindergeld, one of which is sent when you apply for Elterngeld, and I think one is needed for medical insurance.  I think that these are not "Geburtsurkunde" but " Geburtsbescheinigungen" and state what their reason is on them.  You get then a proper Geburtsurkunde for yourself to keep.

 

You get a choice now of a "German only" or an "International" birth certificate(s).  It is also possible to order extra birth certificates in case you want/need them for other purposes.  For this you have to pay extra.

 

You will also automatically receive a tax number for the child per post!

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4 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

 

You need a birth certificate.  

 

You will not get an official birth certificate from the hospital, you will get some other confirmation (I can't recall what it is called) and you need to apply for a birth certificate from the Stadt where the child was born.  You have to fill in a form, hand in the paper you get from the hospital, your marriage certificate, and ID/passport of yourself and your wife.

The hospital where we had our daughter had an office from die Stadt where we could actually do this directly, which is very handy as then we didn't need to do a separate trip into town to do it (but not all hospitals offer this).

 

 

The birth certificate will then be sent to your home which might take a couple of weeks.

 

You will actually receive multiple birth certificates. 

One of which must be sent when you apply for Kindergeld, one of which is sent when you apply for Elterngeld, and I think one is needed for medical insurance.  I think that these are not "Geburtsurkunde" but " Geburtsbescheinigungen" and state what their reason is on them.  You get then a proper Geburtsurkunde for yourself to keep.

 

You get a choice now of a "German only" or an "International" birth certificate(s).  It is also possible to order extra birth certificates in case you want/need them for other purposes.  For this you have to pay extra.

 

You will also automatically receive a tax number for the child per post!


Good to know, I'll check then with the hospital if they have "office from Stadt" and can help us doing these certificates.

 

I will also ask for the international one to use it in our embassy to get birth certificate from our home country and then ask for child passport and then apply for Visa for the child which will take at least six months for this process if we did it through the embassy "But that's fine, since we can apply for health insurance, Kindergeld and Elterngeld using these Geburtsurkunde then the Visa can wait with no problem.

 

Thank you again for your time and help. Have a great day.

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They want tons of documents. National birthcertificate, anmeldung papers by childname etc.

 

There are no exact document list. So don't worry, I sent my documents three times, and everytime they sent it back with little note for missing documents.

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Kindergeld is no problem.

 

Elterngeld might be a problem.   You can get Elterngeld if you have NE status, which I will assume you do not have.   Without NE status you might still have access to Elterngeld depending on your type or permit, mostly you required to have a work permit, which your wife might not have (the permit in the passport must say Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet) but then even if you have it it might still not be enough if the work permit is limited in time.

 

All other benefits you mentioned are for low income residents.

 

If your kid is not living inside the EU you do not have access to the benefits and can't put the kid in your tax card for tax allowance.

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16 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Kindergeld is no problem.

 

Elterngeld might be a problem.   You can get Elterngeld if you have NE status, which I will assume you do not have.   Without NE status you might still have access to Elterngeld depending on your type or permit, mostly you required to have a work permit, which your wife might not have (the permit in the passport must say Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet) but then even if you have it it might still not be enough if the work permit is limited in time.

 

All other benefits you mentioned are for low income residents.

 

If your kid is not living inside the EU you do not have access to the benefits and can't put the kid in your tax card for tax allowance.

For my wife yes it's mentioned in her passport 'Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet', so she is allowed to work with this Visa, For me I'm already working and hold a Blaue Karte.. but for both of us, it's still limited for 4 years not permanent resident but it's a matter of time then we can apply for it. Hopefully it'll not block the Elterngeld, specially for my wife to get the minimum of EUR300 during the first 12 months.

Thanks for your help.

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Hallo @Egili,

I am also in the same situation now as like you in 2019. 

There is a clause for the Elterngeld  eligibility that "You do not work more than 30 hours per week during the time Elterngeld is issued". 

 

Is this on average for 12 months or it is mandatory every week ? 

 

Kindly share some information on this point and how did you managed this. 

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I was told by HR where I work that I can work longer than 30 hours per week. Not sure if that’s everywhere though. 

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2 hours ago, BOB'd Great said:

Hallo @Egili,

I am also in the same situation now as like you in 2019. 

There is a clause for the Elterngeld  eligibility that "You do not work more than 30 hours per week during the time Elterngeld is issued". 

 

Is this on average for 12 months or it is mandatory every week ? 

 

Kindly share some information on this point and how did you managed this. 

 

Elterngeld is intended to partially replace (at roughly 2/3s) your average income, so that taking time off to care for your baby isn’t not a financial loss or worry. (There’s also a cap of course so rich people don’t benefit more than poor). Elterngeld Plus lets you work part time, and can be used up to 24 months (split between both parents). It will be clawed back so that the more you work (while still part time) the less you will get. In no case will Elterngeld get 100% of what you would working full time, just so it’s clear.

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9 minutes ago, Santitas said:

I was told by HR where I work that I can work longer than 30 hours per week. Not sure if that’s everywhere though. 

 

And still get Elterngeld? I’d be a little surprised if it were as high, though. Keep in mind, the Elterngeldstelle usually has the last say (or laugh!). Either way, Any “over-calculated” payouts will be taken back on tax returns.

 

That’s how it was explained to us, basically. Our tax return only came back to us a couple weeks ago (that’s right, Jan 2020) despite filing last March. (Our case worker sucked.) You need the resulting Bescheid as part of your application. Anyway, Elterngeldstelle said they would instead calculate based on our pay stubs and round up to be safe. They wouldn’t adjust the amount we got, but any excess would be taken off our tax return for 2019.

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