Got Fired in ah Underhand Way, How Do I Defend Myself?

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Hi guys! I work in Dusseldorf, let me tell you the background. I get paid 8 Euros an hour for 78 hours a month. I had to go to the ER to remove an infected tumor in the last week of May. So I call my direct boss and tell him so, and everything seems to go well. Well, this week, I go to give all my papers and they tell me I've been fired AND owe them money for the hours I didn't work in May which they paid me. I have all the papers. My boss will not defend me (they're all a bunch of snakes).

 

I would like to get the paper that I've been let go so I can go to the Job Center, but honestly, they managed themselves so badly that I also want them to pay me for however long I was out of work for medical reasons. I read that in Germany there has to be a certain official way of telling someone, and that isn't even how they did it. I would like to know what my chances are of 1) getting paid this money and 2) getting this paper while claiming they owe me this money.

 

I would like to say as leverage I also have the fact that they pay me less than minimum wage if they'd like to get the law involved...

 

Could you please help? They take advantage of every dummy here and I don't want to be a dummy...

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7 hours ago, CommanderJazzHands said:

 They take advantage of every dummy here and I don't want to be a dummy...

 

 

It sounds like its too late.. you already are a dummy....  :huh:

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8 Euros an hour doing what exactly?  There are certain jobs (delivering the post for example) where the minimum wage does not apply.  If you have a job that falls into the minimum wage category and you accepted less than what the law stipulates, then the company is not at fault.  You are.

If you are in the probezeit, they can let you go with no reason.  If you are no longer in the probezeit, they have to express the reasons.  Why were you terminated?

is this correct...  they pay you for the month before you work? 

Sounds like you might need a labour attorney.

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9 hours ago, CommanderJazzHands said:

I had to go to the ER to remove an infected tumor in the last week of May. So I call my direct boss and tell him so, and everything seems to go well. Well, this week, I go to give all my papers and they tell me I've been fired AND owe them money for the hours I didn't work in May which they paid me. I have all the papers.

 So, I am wondering if you maybe failed to submit the doctors note on time. It has to reach your employer no later then the 4th

day of your incapacity to work. If you do not submit it on time your employer can refuse to pay you for those days. Not sure if it grounds for firing, though.

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1 minute ago, vronchen said:

 So, I am wondering if you maybe failed to submit the doctors note on time. It has to reach your employer no later then the 4th

day of your incapacity to work. If you do not submit it on time your employer can refuse to pay you for those days. Not sure if it grounds for firing, though.

 

This "you do not need a doctors note for the first 3 days" is not a global rule in Germany, it is just the default rule if there is nothing about it in the contract, but the employer might as well decide they want the doctor's note on the first day.

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3 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

This "you do not need a doctors note for the first 3 days" is not a global rule in Germany, it is just the default rule if there is nothing about it in the contract, but the employer might as well decide they want the doctor's note on the first day.

 

Yes, absolutely true. The "you do not need a doctors note for the first 3 days" rule only applies if your employer did not specify a rule.

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Normally you should be making minimum wage which is 9,19 an hour right now and if they want to fire you, they should fire you in writing and with proper notice.  I don't know if missing a doctors note for more than 3 days is a good enough reason to fire you. 

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All this advice and no one knows how long the OP worked at the place... 

 

if the OP was in Probezeit...   then Pesch! 

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41 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

All this advice and no one knows how long the OP worked at the place... 

 

if the OP was in Probezeit...   then Pesch! 

 

Yes, that goes for the reason but they should still be given proper notice and in writing.

 

OP, what kind of permit do you have here and how long have you worked?  Depending on that, you may or may not be eligible for unemployment benefits or  social benefits.  Having lost your job, you need to go to the Agentur für Arbeit and register as a job seeker.  They might be able to help you with the employer or tell you where to go.  The job center is actually there for social benefits.

 

According to  https://www.ahs-kanzlei.de/2016/06/verspaetete-krankmeldung-abmahnung-kuendigung/  the employer should not fire you for handing in your sick note late, they should give you a write up and only fire you if it happens more than once.  However, if you are in probezeit or it is a small company, they don't actually need a reason.  They do however have to give you your notice in writing, see  https://www.arbeitsrechte.de/muendliche-kuendigung-durch-arbeitgeber/  and the notice period would be 2 weeks if you were in the probezeit if it states that in your contract, otherwise 4 weeks until the end or middle of the month.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

All this advice and no one knows how long the OP worked at the place... 

 

if the OP was in Probezeit...   then Pesch! 

 

Do you mean here "Pech gehabt" as in "tough luck" or are you referring to some sort of fish?

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On 14.6.2019, 09:40:33, Krieg said:

 

This "you do not need a doctors note for the first 3 days" is not a global rule in Germany, it is just the default rule if there is nothing about it in the contract, but the employer might as well decide they want the doctor's note on the first day.

That is not correct, your employer must receive your doctor´s note within 3 days. He can demand a sickness note from the first day you are registered as unable to work. Look at   Arbeitsgesetze   EntgeltfortzahlungsG  §5 Anzeige - und Nachweispflichen

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10 hours ago, ballygobackwards said:

That is not correct, your employer must receive your doctor´s note within 3 days. He can demand a sickness note from the first day you are registered as unable to work. Look at   Arbeitsgesetze   EntgeltfortzahlungsG  §5 Anzeige - und Nachweispflichen

 

Ok, let's check it. rough translation:

 

1: The employee is obliged to notify the employer of the incapacity for work and its probable duration without delay.

2: If the work incapacity lasts more than three calendar days, the employee shall provide a medical certificate of incapacity for work and its probable duration not later than the following working day.

3: The employer is entitled to demand the submission of the medical certificate earlier.

 

 

It seems like exactly what I said.  I even added that the 3 days is the default when there is nothing about it in your contract.  

 

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I think without the facts (checking the actual Arbeitsverrtag), we can only summise as to the whys, wheres ad wherefores.

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Life is short. Only fight those battles you can win. Is it worth fighting over a minimum wage job in a place they don't want you, even if your dismissal is illegal? I would move on. Quickly.

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On 14/06/2019, 08:14:42, BayrischDude said:

 If you have a job that falls into the minimum wage category and you accepted less than what the law stipulates, then the company is not at fault.  You are.
 

 

§3 MiLoG. The employee can not relinqish their claim to minimum wage other than by settling in court. Any agreements signed to such effect are invalid.

 

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1 hour ago, optimista said:

Life is short. Only fight those battles you can win. Is it worth fighting over a minimum wage job in a place they don't want you, even if your dismissal is illegal? I would move on. Quickly.

 

Move on, off course. 

 

But the OP should also fight for their rights because the company should not get away with it and the OP has (appears to have) a claim for illegal practices (at least in paying less than minimum wage).

 

If the OP threatens to go to a lawyer then it might anyway be enough to get the company to pay some compensation, which might be enough for the OP.  The company has potentially more to lose and if they lost a court case then they would have to pay compensation, back pay, court costs and could be investigated for illegal practices against other staff.

 

 

 

 

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Hi guys. Thanks for all the answers. SpiderPig, I hope you don't get made fun of just trying to pay your rent and get some food on your belly...

 

1. I notified my emplyer via phonecall (I don't have any family here and couldn't walk, so I couldn't go to the post office or to my work), as it was an emergency surgery. I also told him how long I'd be out.

2: If the work incapacity lasts more than three calendar days, the employee shall provide a medical certificate of incapacity for work and its probable duration not later than the following working day. I have it

3: The employer is entitled to demand the submission of the medical certificate earlier.

 

It's not that I'm looking for revenge, but he only told me I was fired on the 15th and then wouldn't pay me up to when he vocally notified me. But yeah, I'm moving on..

 

I was working there for exactly three months. There was no talk of Probeitzeit, but this boss just makes up rules as he goes, so I've decided to not fight it. I'm currently waiting for the paper with my last billing statement saying the work is over to go to the Job Center. It's been a week so I'm going tomorrow anyways, because they also say you have to tell the JC no later than 8 days after. I'm hoping I can start the process without this paper.

 

Do you guys know if it's 100% necessary? (I'm sure it is, but it wouldn't hurt to ask).

 

Thanks for your answers!

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I am not sure where your problem is with me.. but as I said, if you were in Probezeit, then you can be released from employment at the drop of a hat.. no reason needed... 

 

You were in Probezeit... so they let you go.. 

 

 

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