You earn over 60,750 euros gross a year..can you switch to private health insurance?

21 posts in this topic

Ok, so I know for sure most of you are busy fornicating and getting drunk right now...but some of us have to keep the work ethic flag flying!:P:PSo, something which cropped up today with an enquiry and I am not sure if this has been mentioned before.

 

In 2019, an employee earning over 60,750 euros gross a year can opt for private German health insurance (assuming healthy, has a work permit for at least 24 months etc ).

But when can an employee take out private insurance if so wished?

 

First scenario: new in Germany, first job and earning over 60,750 a year...he/she can have private health insurance if wished and opt not to join  the public system.

 

Second scenario: the employee is UNDER the income limit at their current employer´s place  and thus publicly health insured but gets a pay rise eg in June 2019. What happens then? Assuming this salary doesn´t go down in the next 12 months, the employee can switch to private insurance but NOT before Jan 2020. Strange rule but anyway!

 

Third scenario: if the employee so far this year has been obligatorily in public insurance because of their income  but CHANGES their employer and has a new starting salary of over 60, 750 euros gross a  year, the employee can switch from public to private insurance straight away!

 

How about that!!:rolleyes: Crazy rules...

 

 

 

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Damn I was going to send a PM asking if this person was single...:ph34r:

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Ah, but can you switch back to the public insurer's and if so before what age. Private health insurance companies have a habit of increasing premiums once you get over a certain age.

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1 minute ago, optimista said:

Damn I was going to send a PM asking if this person was single...:ph34r:

Nice one! Just changed the title! 

:P

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2 minutes ago, optimista said:

Damn I was going to send a PM asking if this person was single...:ph34r:

Should it make a difference?

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1 minute ago, French bean said:

Ah, but can you switch back to the public insurer's and if so before what age. Private health insurance companies have a habit of increasing premiums once you get over a certain age.

Only if you drop below the income limit later (currently 60,750 p.a. but that goes up most years ) and until your 55th birthday OR you leave Germany, work elsewhere in Europe and get publicly insured eg UK; France, Norway etc for 12 months and come back and start a new employee job at WHATEVER age. However much you earn in your new job -  you can have public insurance because it is the previous  12 months which count.

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A friend is considering private insurance as a self employed. So if he is still on it at age 55 he can't go back on public even if he gets a job making less than 60,000 per year?

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4 minutes ago, LeonG said:

A friend is considering private insurance as a self employed. So if he is still on it at age 55 he can't go back on public even if he gets a job making less than 60,000 per year?

Not if he is still self-employed at age 55  (or leaves Germany for a year and gets into another European country´s public system and then comes back as self-employed or employed in Germany - then YES.)

All under EXISTING rules, of course. No idea about 10 years´ time or 20 or even in one year´s time.

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I guess I should warn him then. He is 49 and likely to be self employed in the future. He didn't like what aok was charging him and thought better to take private for 320 a month albeit with a liability of 1000€. It's all good while he's still relatively healthy but for the future maybe not so much.

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General rule, Leon: what are the client´s plans? To stay in Germany? I know you have many non-German friends and sometimes these non-Germans plan to return to their original country later in life...to Greece, to India, to Turkey etc. 

And the Selbstbehalt/deductible of eg 1,000 euros must be properly understood. Sometimes, this refers only to outpatient treatment but not hospital treatment. 

But anyway: it´s always case by case. AND the real problem...nobody knows quo vadis the German health insurance system. 

 

So...yes, warn your friend that it is very complex and he should take professional advice.

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1 hour ago, French bean said:

Ah, but can you switch back to the public insurer's and if so before what age. Private health insurance companies have a habit of increasing premiums once you get over a certain age.

It´s more complex than that in Germany. Private insurance companies don´t increase an individual´s premiums based on age. That´s what private international insurers do. German companies check out the whole financial aspect: medical inflation, general inflation, imposed Govt changes to the system and,ok, the success or failure of a particular tariff they offer. They love to offer cheap to young people, of course.

Public insurance depends on the Govt deciding which percentages to charge. Ok, a bit of leeway here or there. But not much.  And nobody knows what´s next.

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1 hour ago, john g. said:

General rule, Leon: what are the client´s plans? To stay in Germany? I know you have many non-German friends and sometimes these non-Germans plan to return to their original country later in life...to Greece, to India, to Turkey etc. 

And the Selbstbehalt/deductible of eg 1,000 euros must be properly understood. Sometimes, this refers only to outpatient treatment but not hospital treatment. 

But anyway: it´s always case by case. AND the real problem...nobody knows quo vadis the German health insurance system. 

 

So...yes, warn your friend that it is very complex and he should take professional advice.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

 

He is planning on staying in Germany. I will definitely warn him. 

 

What if he ends up on benefits at some point in the future, over 55 and no job? Would he still have to stay private and the job center would pay for it? 

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Under current rules, Leon, he could get help from the system but nobody- absolutely nobody - knows what the future holds. Nobody.  And this is the problem dealing with people . They all want what´s best for them - of course. But circumstances change - personal and political.

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3 hours ago, optimista said:

Damn I was going to send a PM asking if this person was single...:ph34r:

 

Not be blunt but 60k is not far from average salary in Munich link. If you factor bonuses and overtime 60k is probably the average. 

 

 But if you are hot, you are a she and like weird people, you can always PM me :rolleyes:

 

3 hours ago, john g. said:

Only if you drop below the income limit later (currently 60,750 p.a. but that goes up most years ) and until your 55th birthday OR you leave Germany, work elsewhere in Europe and get publicly insured eg UK; France, Norway etc for 12 months and come back and start a new employee job at WHATEVER age. However much you earn in your new job -  you can have public insurance because it is the previous  12 months which count.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

 

A former colleague told me that he decided to work less hours (e.g. part time) for one year once he hit 53. He switched to public and remained public after 1 year he switched back to full contract. I don't know if this still works. I was also considering doing this but I figured the risk of not being able to switch later outweighs the benefits. 

 

If you properly account/plan for the waiting time associated with public insurance, everything else has less importance. Sure, if you have a very specific problem then you might need an extraordinary doctor who treats only private patients. You can always pay from your own pocket if that is ever the case. It's not like private insurance will have full coverage for exceptional cases. 

 

In my view, private insurance is for the rich (a.k.a financially independent individuals). The same way you can buy a Porsche with all your savings  or a 2000 Euro purse with a 60k income. It's not for us. 

 

As a reference, a colleague who retired last year said he stopped paying for medical insurance (private). It became so expensive that he rather pays  2000 Euro every time he needs a special medical procedure. He is rich so this is not a concern for him. But I am not sure if I would recommend someone private insurance unless he/she has a significant passive income. 

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25 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

As a reference, a colleague who retired last year said he stopped paying for medical insurance (private). It became so expensive that he rather pays  2000 Euro every time he needs a special medical procedure. He is rich so this is not a concern for him. 

 

He was having you on.

No German private or public health insurance lets any German resident out of its clutches unless that person proves that he/she has already been accepted by another private/public health insurance, see §193 (3) VVG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_vvg/englisch_vvg.html#p0690

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1 hour ago, PandaMunich said:

 

He was having you on.

No German private or public health insurance lets any German resident out of its clutches unless that person proves that he/she has already been accepted by another private/public health insurance, see §193 (3) VVG: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_vvg/englisch_vvg.html#p0690

 

I will ask time next time I meet him. 

 

I know he travels lot to Czech Republic - where he was born and owns a house -  so he might have declared residency there. 

 

As a side, what would happen if someone cannot afford the private insurance. If you have to fork 1.500 per month on a private insurance you won't be able to cover your monthly expenses from a pension generated on a 65k average income (and that is in the happy event the pension system holds on today's standard) 

 

Do you declare yourself bankrupt and let the social services foot the bill? 

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Just curious...

How is health insurance of minijobbers paid? I remember reading here that the employer makes no contribution to it. Do the minijobbers bear all the cost? Half of their 450eur/month income...?!

Or pensioner? Sure pensioners have no "employer", and I presume a good number of them have peanuts income, say few 100s eur a month. 

 

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9 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Just curious...

How is health insurance of minijobbers paid? I remember reading here that the employer makes no contribution to it. Do the minijobbers bear all the cost? Half of their 450eur/month income...?!

Or pensioner? Sure pensioners have no "employer", and I presume a good number of them have peanuts income, say few 100s eur a month. 

 

 

Some minijobbers are under the insurance of their spouse, some may have a 2nd job. A mini jobber who doesn't have a spouse with a full time job and has no other income qualifies for a Hartz iv top up so in that case they pay the insurance.

 

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9 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Do the minijobbers bear all the cost?

Half of their 450eur/month income...?!

Or pensioner? Sure pensioners have no "employer", and I presume a good number of them have peanuts income, say few 100s eur a month.

 

Only if they do not already have health insurance through another path.

A mini job was meant as extra income for either:

  • people who already have an employee income and therefore health insurance through that main job, or
  • spouses who do not work and can remain under their working spouse's public health insurance through free Familienversicherung if their only income are the 450€ from a mini job, or
  • pensioners, who already get health insurance based on their public pension through the KVdR if they spent the second half of their worklife in a public health insurance.
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22 hours ago, LeonG said:

 

He is planning on staying in Germany. I will definitely warn him. 

 

What if he ends up on benefits at some point in the future, over 55 and no job? Would he still have to stay private and the job center would pay for it? 

Nobody knows the rules for the future, Leo...neither for public nor private health insurance. I just guess there will be German rules! Nobody is allowed to be without health insurance ( theoretically)...

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