Streaming Laws in 2019

16 posts in this topic

Hi!


I know this question has been asked a million times by millions of people who let me try to be as specific as I can as to why I decided to make a NEW post about the "same question".

 

Back in 2015, friends of mine told me that streaming is a "grey area" that is neither illegal or legal and it is also pretty safe to do without getting cought because the authories don't really pay much attention to it. Or something like that, don't quote me it was a while ago.

 

Back in 2018, I was told that the German goverment has tighten their streaming laws and you can now get very heavily fined for it as it is now consistered illegal. Again, please don't quote me.

 

So that comes to my question of what is true and what is not true in 2019? My friend in the UK streams all the time and tells me she doesn't know anybody who has ever been fined, neither do I really know of friends here, but a lot of people watch through Netflix and etc nowadays anyway. So, from all the information that I was told or heard along the way through the years, what is actually valid? Asking as somebody who desn't know much about the laws and etc.

 

Help?

I hope this question was specific enough not to be yet enough duplicate. My apologise if it is.

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My understanding of the situation:

Netflixing / Youtubing - aka legal streaming, where you have paid for the content (netflix, amazon video, hbo, etc.) or are paying through ads (youtube, vimeo, etc.)

Streaming - Almost always 'ad'-based (like youtube is) but, you think, probably not allowed.  The site you're watching this (just released!) film might change url's not infrequently, and sometimes advertises alternative url's directly on their home page.  They have high quality videos of all the new films and some cams, perhaps, of videos still in theaters.  The web site owner (think kim dotcom playing video games in his mansion) is benefiting from the ad revenue while not giving any of that money on to the original content creators (dustin hoffman).  

Torrenting -  is where you swap the file with a whole bunch of other people.  So essentially, you're sharing the film to other people while you download it.  This is done between individuals, and doesn't utilize a web site which pays for the bandwidth.  There is no money being made, but the viewer is still not paying dustin hoffman to watch his film.  

Streaming is definitely not allowed.  As in illegal.  

I've never heard of a prosecution for it, however.  

I have heard of a prosecution (fine), for torrenting.  'They' get you for torrenting b/c the mpaa guys and girls are actively sharing their own videos.  If they're part of the network, they can see who (which ip) is also sharing james bond 7 or whatever, and then get some lawyers to send out a letter to demand the person with the internet connection behind that gets a fine.  This takes a long time and then the back-and-forth between the 'accused' and the mpaa or film makers takes a long time too.  I'm not sure the initial period between torrenting and a letter demanding payment for illegal activities, but someone I know just had to pay off a 2014 'torrenting' fine (of almost 2000€).  

That's the scoop as far as I know it.  

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10 hours ago, shockedpenguin said:

Streaming is definitely not allowed.  As in illegal.  

I've never heard of a prosecution for it, however.  

 

I dont know if there have been any successful prosecutions (presumably actually civil cases of suing) but I do know it has been tried (it was in the news a year or two back, someone streaming from one of the porn websites.  As I remember the case collapsed).  Even so, mostly people dont get sued for copyright here, they seem to mostly to come to some arrangement which ends up costing a few hundred euros.

 

Legal grey area, as far as I can tell is baloney, its just a euphemism for illegal but you probably wont get caught. The general analysis of the europen court of justice, Stichting Brein v Jack Frederik Wullems, is that streaming is illegal. I have seen claims of fines in the region of 150 euro per incident, but I dhave no idea if that is correct.

 

Caveats:  Yes, there are legal streaming services, we arent talking about that.  Yes there are also complex cross border things going on but at the end of the day its "making a copy" in germany thats the illegal bit and for whatever reason streaming counts as copying. I also accept that in theory its very difficult or impossible for me to check whether the site I consume media from is licensed to show me the content or not... Im not the one making the rules.  And anyway, honestly, you know if its a legit service.  And most importantly, not only am I not a lawyer but in fact even a lawyer cannot tell you for sure until you try it in court. 

 

10 hours ago, shockedpenguin said:

I have heard of a prosecution (fine), for torrenting. 

 

Actual legal cases are relatively rare, but letters from Fromage and Woolbagger or some such demanding cash with legal threats is absolutely the norm here, a good portion of the people I know (1 in 10 maybe) got such letters/fines and not just individuals, I even know of a church that got such a letter and decided after legal advice that they had to pay.

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How would someone even know what you are streaming? It would mean the internet company would have to be actively monitoring your downstream and then pass this info onto the movie companies. 

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They normally do not get you for streaming.  They get you for uploading via torrents.  For that they connect themselves to the torrent swarm and get all the information from there because it is all visible.   Then they get your contact data from the ISP based on your IP address.

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9 hours ago, Krieg said:

Then they get your contact data from the ISP based on your IP address.

 

I refer my learned friend to the earlier comment by BayrischDude.

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I guess the question is '' is watching films and sports through kodi legal? '

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9 hours ago, Klubfan said:

I guess the question is '' is watching films and sports through kodi legal? '

 

See zwiebelfish's answer above. This is the case she was referring to

 

http://www.taz.de/!5405008/?goMobile2=1557792000000

 

 

"Das ist laut EuGH beim unerlaubten Streaming geschützter Werke aber gerade nicht der Fall. Auch das Streaming offensichtlich illegaler Angebote gilt also von nun an als rechtswidrig. Das Urteil erfasst nicht nur die Nutzung eines Geräts wie des Filmspelers, sondern auch das Ansehen der Programme via Computer oder Smartphone direkt im Internet."

 

So its a question of what is "obviously illegal content".

 

Note I am not a lawyer nor have I wings to fly.

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17 minutes ago, arsenal21 said:

So its a question of what is "obviously illegal content".

 

I think it is not that difficult.

 

- We provide all current films for free:  Illegal.

- We provide you all the cable packages from all European countries for 15 EUR a month: Illegal

- Here you can watch all PPV sport events from all European countries cable packages for 10 EUR a month: Illegal

- Here you can watch a bunch of 2 years old movies for 10 EUR a month: Legal

 

and so on.

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The problem is, the law is deliberately left vague, we can all come up with our own definitions and interpretations of the streaming laws - and I would not disagree with what many have said here. But it seems that the laws or streaming, are not like speeding which says if you drive more than 50kph in a 50 zone then you are breaking the law.

 

In the very very very unlikely situation, that you get caught steaming, its only the judge/lawyers who will decide you guilt or not.

 

As far as I can see, its up to you your own moral standards, if you choose to watch movies that are in the cinema for free on your own home TV - that day. The chances of getting caught are close to zero - but always use a VPN, if you are going to do it

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

The problem is, the law is deliberately left vague,

 

Well, kind of.  In reality did you pay netflix or a similar service for access or did you get it from some popup infested porn advertising russian website with a name something like allvids.co?

 

The reality is that you know whether the source is kosher or not.

And we now know, from what has been posted on this thread that streaming from an unauthorised source is illegal.

 

This whole idea that maybe I can stream hollywood movies on day of release from russian hackers and its all legal and above board -- dont lie to yourself, you always knew its wasnt.

 

2 hours ago, yesterday said:

As far as I can see, its up to you your own moral standards

 

Tue only in as far as its up to your own moral standards whether or not you do anything illegal. Using the argument that you wont get caught is quite disturbing to me, would you say hey this shop has really bad security we can shoplift and probably never get caught? Id hope not.  And yes, I do understand that copyright "theft" isnt theft, its not about that, its about dubious morals you propose.

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2 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Well, kind of.  In reality did you pay netflix or a similar service for access or did you get it from some popup infested porn advertising russian website with a name something like allvids.co?

 

THe question is how are you supposed to know if it illegal or not ?

Sure we can all make general ( moral ) rules about what we consider to be illegal eg Movies that are in the cinema coming to your TV for free. Its also wrong to pass around your DVD/music collection, but people do it - its also wrong to take a works pen home with you - but people do it - its all wrong - and depends on your moral standard.

But in reality, how can you prove it ??  are there lists telling you which website is illegal ??

I must admit, I would have to look up how to  find where the IP traffic is coming from, not everybody will know how to do this.

From being shown how to operate KODI, where movies are available, there are no " popup infested porn advertising russian website" - its just select what you want and play, no-porn - no advertising.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

The reality is that you know whether the source is kosher or not.

And we now know, from what has been posted on this thread that streaming from an unauthorised source is illegal.

 

and where is the list of " unauthorised sources " or do I just guess?

 

 

2 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

This whole idea that maybe I can stream hollywood movies on day of release from russian hackers and its all legal and above board -- dont lie to yourself, you always knew its wasnt.

 

I would agree based on my personal moral standards, that watching a movie on TV while its in the cinema, is illegal. But maybe other people would not.

Things are changing fast at the moment, I remember when La LA LAND was released, it was in the CINEMA and then on the iplayer within 2 months. When the time differences are small some people may just not realize. Sky show movies that are in the Cinema as the moment - ok I think sky and the BBC are an authorised source, but how do I know - if I never heard of the provider before ? 

 

2 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

Tue only in as far as its up to your own moral standards whether or not you do anything illegal. Using the argument that you wont get caught is quite disturbing to me, would you say hey this shop has really bad security we can shoplift and probably never get caught? Id hope not.  And yes, I do understand that copyright "theft" isnt theft, its not about that, its about dubious morals you propose.

 

I say that you will probably never get caught, because that reflects the reality of the situation, not because I agree or disagree from the moral point of view. I never have stated a moral view on doing it or not. Except above about watching movies on your TV while they are on the CINEMA.

 

Also I find your argument hard to understand, everybody bends the rules a bit, for example watching UK SKYTV here is against the contract you signed when you took out, or is that ok for you, have you  never found a pen in your coat from work and did not take it back ?, have you never been surfing at work, rather than working ? have you ever been late and drove too fast to catch up the time back ? then some very moral people might think they should report themselves to the police - because they brook the law - Others might not

 

 

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4 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

THe question is how are you supposed to know if it illegal or not ?

Sure we can all make general ( moral ) rules about what we consider to be illegal eg Movies that are in the cinema coming to your TV for free. Its also wrong to pass around your DVD/music collection, but people do it - its also wrong to take a works pen home with you - but people do it - its all wrong - and depends on your moral standard.

But in reality, how can you prove it ??  are there lists telling you which website is illegal ??

I must admit, I would have to look up how to  find where the IP traffic is coming from, not everybody will know how to do this.

From being shown how to operate KODI, where movies are available, there are no " popup infested porn advertising russian website" - its just select what you want and play, no-porn - no advertising.

 

 

And how much does it ask you to pay for the latest Hollywood blockbuster?

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I do not know because I have not done it.

 

But even if i had, I would say it in a public way, because I believe  it is illegal and therefore I could be prosecuted for it - it would almost be like going into a police station to admit my speeding offenses that they did not catch me for. I find it difficult to believe that you ask me to self incriminate, to prove a point that I am not making

 

My point is again, the law against streaming is deliberately left so vague, that it is difficult to to actually know that you are breaking it, you have to use your own ( or other peoples) judgement and then see if you get caught / prosecuted. Everyone here can state their views on what is allowed or not - but its just not clear enough, thats why you see so many people get ( novice ) getting caught for torrenting. Go and read the torrenting webpages, you see many many people who get done because the law against it it just not clear enough, for the average jo.

At least the KODI website lists, providers that are illegal - but there needs to be better protection for the average jo, who does not really know whats going on.

 

 

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