Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

Best options for new central heating system

26 posts in this topic

So, it could be that I am in the market for a new Burner for my central heating.   Cost approx 4000€ if I take the top efficient model.

 

Once bought and installed, I still need to pay 120€ per month for LPG.. ( Incl gas tank rental).. 

 

So...   The other options are to heat the whole place with wood.. 

 

There are wood burners that a "water jacket" and can be easilly attached to my house heating system..   

Advantage... I heat the house as and when I need...  and a lovely wood fire in the living area..

Disadvantage... a bit crappy when I am away for a week at a time in winter.. and constantly having to fetch wood from the barn.. 

 

Option 2 is a Pellet burner... 

 

Also available with water jacket... 

 

Advantage...

They are, at the moment, the cheapest wood burner to run... 

Can store the pellets in a spare room without creating the shite and mess that logs bring with them..

They are automated, so real worry about long spells away from home...  and can be controled from smartphone App..

 

I heat any water with durschlaufheitzer.. 

 

So.. any other insight or any advise greatly taken on board... 

 

TIA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about Wärmepumpe which uses heat from the ground?

 

They are gaining popularity, and there are also hybrid versions which can also use solar.

 

I don't know much personally, but a colleague of mine has one and is very happy with it.  His is even an older model.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought one of the advantages was that their environmental impact was low?

Especially if you use solar to power the device.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heat pump, does not heat the water so much - so is only really good if you have under the floor heating. If you just have normal radiators on the walls - its not going to be warm enough, as only a small surface area - from what I heard.

 

But I have no personal experience.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard that the air exchangers are actually not very efficient.  And the colder the air, the less efficient, so not so good in winter.

The ground ones are more expensive to install, and must be planned and done right for your property as it can also depend on the soil type, but due to the constant temperature of the ground then they work well.  If you get the right system they can even be used to cool the house in summer.

 

But I think your certainly need an expert to do an assessment and give advice, and it is also not a system that you can fit yourself.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heat pumps are only efficient, if they don't have to cope with a too large temperature difference.

If you want 22°C room temperature -in a house with underfloor heating- you need a floor temperature of 24°C (if it's not too cold outside). 

In the scred you loose approx. 6°C so the water in the underfloor heating should be 30°C. If the outside temperature is 0°C yould need to "pump" from 0 to 30°C. (air heat pump)

If you have digged 1000m of PE tube 2m deep in your garden you only need to pump from approx. 10 to 30°C. In 2m depth the temperaure is approx. 10° for a long time in winter.

To generate 4kW of heat you will need 1kW of electrical energy.

Radiators need a water temperature between 45 and 50°C. When a heat pump has to produce taht warm water the effiency goes down a lot probably you need 2kW to produce 4kW of heat. When the temperature difference is even larger you will heat your house completely with electricity.

 

All the thermal energy a house looses through walls, windows and the roof has to be provided by the heating.

If you have underfloor heating it has to go through the floor.

If you have a modern house that needs 60kWh/m²*a the temperature of the floor will be pleasant. If you have a house that needs 240kWh/m²/g. The floor will be unpleasantly warm and you will get a decent bill from your electricity provider.

Last year our house needed 7500kWh for 130m² -> 58kWh/m²/a.

 

Spiderpig: keep it simple.

I would suggest pellets. LPG is the most expensive heating option.

Forget heat pumps!

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, there is just 80-cm of earth before we hit bedrock and the water table...  

It's looking like pellets and Pelletofen is going to be cost effective way to go...

 

Any other ideas welcome... 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to ask myself this very same question no longer ago.

From what I've learnt, Wärmepumpe and actually are more efficient the larger the temperature difference (between indoor and outdoor).

Even the least good Wärmepumpe, the "air" one, is twice as efficient as gas.

Unfortunately they are bloody expensive. In our new built, the simplest ones would have added a 13-17k€ to the cost of the house, compared to the same house with gas heating instead. A modest 112qm house. Scale this against 60€ /month for gas that we pay right now...

In addition, thermal pumps make little sense without underfloor heating.

Retrofitting a thermal pump to an existing building would be much more expensive than in a new built.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We heat primarily with wood, wasserführender ofen, also with an oven section. It is pretty good, heats the radiators well, cooks our food, but the big downer is, as you say, not being there to shove the logs in.

 

I would probably go pellet, but would worry that if the price rises, then you are stuck. At least we could start burning sperrmull, cats, kids, whatever is lying about with less than 20% water in it...

 

edit - we do have perfectly good gas heating, I am just tight.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3.5.2019, 15:04:54, SpiderPig said:

Unfortunately, there is just 80-cm of earth before we hit bedrock and the water table...  

It's looking like pellets and Pelletofen is going to be cost effective way to go...

 

Any other ideas welcome... 

 

I think pellets and pelletofen are also the way to go.

 

We viewed a nice old building that had been renovated and it had a new heating system, pelletofen. It seemed to work very well. It seems to be very common here that older buildings have these put in.

 

Warm pump I have only seen in brand new houses which have been built.  It is also incredibly expensive to install and you have to insulate the house, have floor heating, ventilation etc etc. We have one in our home.  It is attached to the electric just in case there is not enough warm air to heat, and quite often especially in winter it uses the electricity to heat which rakes your bill up alot.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My last post seems to have escaped but Biogas is something to consider for a rural area. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those look cool...   but I am not prepared to have a digger/Frontloader  ripping up my Garden.. its bad enough that the moles are doing their best to screw it up for me...

 

Plus, it would cost about 10k to build one to acceptable standards, then I wouldnt get the building permission to install one... 

 

The cost of pumping water every week will add to the cost, and in winter would be impossible to water it! 

 

Disposal of the compost would be a problem too... and they stink! 

 

 

Looks like this could be on my "To do" list..

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Pelletofen-wasserfuhrend-ITC-Idropoint-AE-Cremeweis-Komplett-Set-11-5-kW-mit/143233819107?hash=item215966a1e3:g:lioAAOSwEgpcyt9R

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anyone here that has a pelletofen? 

 

If so..

1...how noisy are they?

2 How often does the ash need to be emptied ?  ( ei, every full hopper of pellets? Every 4-5 days or  ???)

3, if its one that you fill with 15kg at a time, will the ofen still work if the hopper lid is still open?

 

 

I cant find this info on any or the retailers websites... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you enter Pelletofen into youtube.com a number of videos appear - have you taken a look?  (I haven't).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have first-hand experience with a pelletofen, but mother-in-law had her heating system completely 

replaced with a pellet burner in the cellar about four years ago. I must admit that I was a bit sceptical at 

the beginning, but now I'm really quite impressed. It is fully automatic - just what she needed. She can

set all the heating times and days on the display as needed. The only noise it makes is every day at

18:00 when the vacuum pump gets another load of pellets from the reservoir, which takes 5 to 10 

minutes - the time can be changed. Otherwise completely silent. The ashes are automatically put into 

a bin which has to be emptied about twice a year. The pellet reservoir has several cubic metres of 

pellets, I think it has only been refilled twice in the four years. It just does it's thing and the house 

is warm in the winter. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0