Unique Problem: Blue Card Holder, Employment Termination and Family Reunion Visa

8 posts in this topic

Hello All

 

I am really in a mess right now with lot of things going on my mind of what options do I have. I have read lots of posts in Toytown but failing to get answers, and hence, creating this new topic. I will be having lot of questions, and I will try to be as structured as possible to my post.

 

So, I am from India and I am residing in Berlin since July, 2016 and I came here for work with a normal Work Permit (not a Blue Card). I switched my job in July, 2018 and I got a Blue Card associated with the company with unlimited contract. My Blue Card validity is from 22nd May, 2018 till my Passport expiry date, i.e. Jan, 2021.

 

I got married in February, 2019 and then my wife applied for Family Reunion Visa to join me here. She applied for the Visa in March and the visiting verification has been done in India by the consular and now I am waiting for the letter here in Berlin from ABH or any German authority for my verification.

 

Now, the twist is that I unexpectedly got terminated on April 10th, 2019 (after 9 months) with a very stupid reason and they offered me Mutual Termination Agreement. They were offering me the compensation till end of July, 2019 with severance payment. With some negotiations from my side, reading a lot in forums and knowing the lawyer fees to be very high to deal with them in the court (Wasn't a subscriber of Verdi), I signed the Mutual Termination Agreement on April 18th, 2019 and they are now ready to pay me till 30th September, 2019, but without severance payment. They have already released me from all the company's duties, and they will provide me a reference letter too. I also asked them to help me with my wife's visa as well since I have to get a work certificate from them where they should just mention that I still work in this company and do not mention anything about my contract which has now officially from unlimited to 30th September, 2019. (very unlikely they will help me out). It will all depend what exactly is asked in the letter.

 

What HR told me is in order to get the unemployment benefits, I should inform Arbeitsamt 3 months before the end date of termination (so basically before June 30th) and also to ABH immediately to seek a new visa as my current Blue Card is associated with the company and will get redundant after the termination date.

 

Now, I researched a lot but I am still seeking answers on what options or possibilities do I have in terms of Blue Card, finding a new job, unemployment benefits and the affect on Family Reunion Visa of my wife.

 

I know finding a new job and getting a new employment contract as soon as possible seems to be the most ideal situation for now, but it is not in my control that when I will get a job that meets the Blue Card requirements as well.

 

My first priority is to get my wife here without her application to be rejected. (This seems to be unlikely, but I want to try)

 

Some immediate questions:

 

a. Should I go to ABH immediately and tell my situation or should I wait for the letter from ABH regarding Family Reunion Visa and provide my proofs, so that visa is granted to my wife?

 

b. Should I inform Arbeitsamt as soon as possible or should I just wait till June 30th and kind of inform them around that time as I need to inform them before 3 months?

 

c. Is it possible to get a settlement permit since I have already completed 33 months in Berlin, but not entirely with Blue Card (11 months). That doesn't work, right? Or have you heard of any case that it worked because of some reason?

 

d. If I get a job in 1 or 2 months time, do I need to change the employer associated with my Blue Card? There are some exceptions. You can see that in the note here. Or should I just request them to make it a Normal Blue Card and not associate it with any company?

 

Family Reunion Visa:

 

e. Let's suppose I play the waiting game till May 31st, and wait for the letter from ABH, where I need to give proofs within 4 weeks. I have talked to some people, and they usually require employment contract, pay slips, certificate employment and house proof. If I provide them this without mentioning Mutual Termination Agreement, is it fine? Or with Mutual Termination Agreement, then there seems to be high chance of rejection, right?

 

f. About the house proof, I wanted to know whether I can give the same address as I am living in a shared apartment at the moment. Or do I need to give them the proof of our individual house where we both will live? The house is big in square meters to accommodate 4 people, and maybe I will get that letter of proof from the owner as well.

 

g. If I have got the job and send them a proof with new employment contract, will ABH reject the application, since she got her verification done according to my previous company? Or simply telling my situation can work?

 

Blue Card:

 

h. If I don't get a job untiI 30th September (which is unlikely), I will get 3 months more to find a job, since I am a Blue Card Holder. Is that correct and will ABH modify or grant me some other visa or that same Blue Card will still be valid and I can continue searching?

 

Unemployment Benefits:

 

i. Which benefit will I get AGL I or AGL II and is there any link between Arbeitsamt and ABH? If I register myself in Arbeitsamt about my termination as soon as possible, will that information would flow to ABH?

 

j. I also read something about job centre in some threads. What exactly is that?

 

Finding a new job:

 

k. Let's suppose I found a job and starting from July, am I still entitled to get the compensation from the previous company until September 30th? Because there is some clause of Premature Termination Date.

 

I can think of all these questions at the moment, but there must be lot more. It will be really appreciated if someone can guide me through in the right direction. I may consider Red Tape Translation services as well or any immigrant lawyer. Let's see.

 

I know the answer can become very complicated as everything seems to be so interconnected. Do try your level best, thanks :) 

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2 hours ago, Piyush Khosla said:

Family Reunion Visa:

 

e. Let's suppose I play the waiting game till May 31st, and wait for the letter from ABH, where I need to give proofs within 4 weeks. I have talked to some people, and they usually require employment contract, pay slips, certificate employment and house proof. If I provide them this without mentioning Mutual Termination Agreement, is it fine? Or with Mutual Termination Agreement, then there seems to be high chance of rejection, right?

 

f. About the house proof, I wanted to know whether I can give the same address as I am living in a shared apartment at the moment. Or do I need to give them the proof of our individual house where we both will live? The house is big in square meters to accommodate 4 people, and maybe I will get that letter of proof from the owner as well.

 

Lying to the authorities in order to obtain a residence permit is a criminal offence in Germany. 

 

1. Your employment has been terminated. This is relevant information with respect to your wife's application. 

 

2. If you are only renting a room, you shouldn't lie and claim you are renting the entire house.

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You really should not try to (for the lack of word) manipulate anything with the intention of being able to live in Germany. It will really be a lot of trouble for you and your wife if you get caught. The government is really pretty thorough in digging for information especially when it comes to giving permits. 

 

Your situation is somewhat discussed here:

 

http://www.trust7.com/forum/-/message_boards/message/306105

 

I know you have already given it a consideration but just really do it. Apply for another job ASAP. Make as many applications as you can. There was one here in TT who did the same thing after being relieved from his employer and he was able to obtain a new contract. You take it from there. Also, my friend who was here on a tourist visa last month, applied for a job during the stay, and was given a job offer that will start in June. When you get hired, you might be given an earlier date since

you are already here. 

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I honestly do not understand why people get in this mess - if you are offered a termination, you need a lawyer to check stuff. Period.

 

You have disqualified yourself from the dole, ALG1, because you, in their eyes, terminated your work contract for 3 months, ergo, you are at most eligible for 9 months. You know that you are unemployed as of September, go to the Arbeitsamt NOW to inform them! The job centre is a different thing entirely.

Check that you actually ARE entitled to any dole at all, since you are now considered unemployed since you agreed to be "unwiderruflich freigstellt", which means that you are now considered unemployed and that time will not be taken into consideration when calculating your dole.

 

And this is why you don't try to be smart and do it all yourself.

 

 

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9 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

 

Lying to the authorities in order to obtain a residence permit is a criminal offence in Germany. 

 

1. Your employment has been terminated. This is relevant information with respect to your wife's application. 

 

2. If you are only renting a room, you shouldn't lie and claim you are renting the entire house.

@engelchen I am not trying to lie here but just wanted to know my possibilities here. I just want to know what do you suggest that should I first go to Arbeitsamt and then to ABH or vice versa? And should I go immediately since my employment contract ends on 30th September, 2019. In the meantime, I will be searching a job. 

 

About the second thing, I would not lie and claim that I am renting the entire house since I will take the apartment contract where there are names of 2 other people, and everyone has a separate room. Can we live as a couple in the room, irrespective of how many other people are living in the apartment? Obviously, I am searching for other apartment for us as well. Or should I give the proof of the new apartment?

 

I may also hire a translator from red tape translation services to help me out by communicating effectively and truthfully to both the authorities.
 

8 hours ago, thegreatdivide said:

You really should not try to (for the lack of word) manipulate anything with the intention of being able to live in Germany. It will really be a lot of trouble for you and your wife if you get caught. The government is really pretty thorough in digging for information especially when it comes to giving permits. 

 

Your situation is somewhat discussed here:

 

http://www.trust7.com/forum/-/message_boards/message/306105

 

I know you have already given it a consideration but just really do it. Apply for another job ASAP. Make as many applications as you can. There was one here in TT who did the same thing after being relieved from his employer and he was able to obtain a new contract. You take it from there. Also, my friend who was here on a tourist visa last month, applied for a job during the stay, and was given a job offer that will start in June. When you get hired, you might be given an earlier date since

you are already here. 

@thegreatdivide Okay, I got that point. I am just trying to understand the process and what could be the most logical conclusion as of now. I did see that link before, and the situation there is not the same if I have to believe, because let's suppose I got an employment contract on May 1st, and my joining date is July 1st, the premature termination date will then be affected on the first day of my employment in the new company. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

7 hours ago, camlough said:

I honestly do not understand why people get in this mess - if you are offered a termination, you need a lawyer to check stuff. Period.

 

You have disqualified yourself from the dole, ALG1, because you, in their eyes, terminated your work contract for 3 months, ergo, you are at most eligible for 9 months. You know that you are unemployed as of September, go to the Arbeitsamt NOW to inform them! The job centre is a different thing entirely.

Check that you actually ARE entitled to any dole at all, since you are now considered unemployed since you agreed to be "unwiderruflich freigstellt", which means that you are now considered unemployed and that time will not be taken into consideration when calculating your dole.

 

And this is why you don't try to be smart and do it all yourself.

 

 

@camlough I did ask from Verdi and the legal advisor there told me that it is not a bad deal to end the contract on 30th September, 2019. Plus, she was recommending me to go to an immigration lawyer for the other issue of Family Reunion Visa. On the other hand, the employer was threatening me that they would issue a notice of termination at home, if you don't take the decision early. Anyways, since I did not have enough money to challenge them in the court and I have signed it now, I am looking for answers after that. 

 

"You have disqualified yourself from the dole, ALG1, because you, in their eyes, terminated your work contract for 3 months, ergo, you are at most eligible for 9 months." I did not understand this, if I show my mutual termination agreement to them that I want to receive unemployment benefits after September 30th (my last day of termination). In any case, I am least bothered about the unemployment benefits at the moment. What I have read so far is that you will get unemployment benefits whenever your contract is coming to the end or after the termination date. I just need to show them the proof of my termination and you have to tell them before 3 months. I can be wrong on this though. But, seriously I don't care whether they would like to give me unemployment benefits for 6 months, 9 months or 1 year. What I know is that I will go there and tell them that I am going to be unemployed and will not be getting any benefits from the employer after 30th September. 

 

I am quoting one line from my contract, "With the signature of this agreement and in connection with the end of the employment contract the employee shall be released from work up to the Termination Date (i.e. 30th September) with effect from 10.04.2019, with continued payment of the compensation as set forth in the Employment Agreement."

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Sigh. So you got a bit of legal advice and then decided to just forge ahead anyway? That's...smart...

 

You need to go to the Arbeitsamt NOW to tell them you'll be unemployed come October. They will register you as "arbeitssuchend". Once you hit the 3 months mark until Sept 30, you must go there in person to register for the dole, IF you are entitled to it. IF.

You are officially regarded as unemployed as of 18th April - in order to qualify for the dole, I believe you need at least 2 years of consecutive working - do you have that? It is of absolutely no interest to anyone whether they pay you til September or not - unwiderruflich freigstellt put paid to that. Something I have mentioned before here as well.

You will not be getting anything at all for the first 3 months, so you're on your own, can you afford that? And trying to lie and cheat, even entertaining that idea is pretty despiccable. You are a guest in my country after all. A guest who is now a liablity to our system.

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I can't help you much here but when it's a question between lying to authorities and telling the truth, it's normally better to tell the truth.  Eventually you will have to go to ABH to tell them you have a new job.  Do you think they will ask you why you didn't tell them when you lost the old job?  Sure they will.  And you will say..?

 

Surely, going to ABH now and admitting that you have lost your job could jeopardize your application for your wife but not doing it can do that too even worse if you get caught.  Normally when you lie or conceal information to authorities and get found out, they will be wondering what else you are concealing.

 

IMO since you are not working, you should put all your energy into finding a new job.  The sooner you can go to ABH to tell them you have a new job, the sooner you can have your application for your wife back on track.

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There is some generally good advice. I would suggest you breathe deeply, relax, and go to work on your new job applications.

 

If I understood it correctly, you seem to be quite sure that you will find a new job yourself before September. Therefore I will not touch the Arbeitsamt at all.

 

As to your specific questions:

 

a. You should inform the ABH immediately, as it is a material change in your contract, based on which you received your permit.

 

Let me an answer h immediately: the Berliner ABH tends to give 3-6 months "for free", meaning they will not take away the Blue Card and not give any other permit, rather they will send you a letter saying that they will take away the Blue Card after that date (Note this will depend on the Land; in some other Länder the BC could be immediately revoked and one would have to apply to a new permit – I searched for a federal regulation that would prescribe a specific action in this case, but found none).

 

c. That works if you were here for 21/33 months on a Blaue Karte or an employment visa that could actually be the Blaue Karte (so, salary and education conditions). But that will definitely not help you, since NE will only be given to people who have financial security and the checks will be stronger compared to family reunion.

 

d You will in any case need to notify the ABH regarding your new contract and if your BC is tied to a previous employer you will need to make trip to the ABH to change the Zusatzblatt (it would be illegal to work if you do not have a permission for that). 

 

e. One of the required documents is the one from the employer. You obviously won't be able to provide the document that says that the employment relationship is current and not gekündigt (and yes, suggesting to your employer to commit a criminal offense isn't a very nice move – hope this was just a misunderstanding).

 

f They will want the new house where you will live.

 

g. They shouldn't reject you, but they might take time for additional verification.

 

i. You cannot get ALG II on the employment permit, e.g. on the BC. ALG I is fine, the specifics depend on how long you worked, but since you already have 12 months of insurance contributions you are eligible.

 

j Job center = place where people get ALG II. It is not relevant for you.

 

k It is normal, yes, for people to get the compensation from their previous job while working on the new one. But your specific contract might have some additional terms so your situation might differ.

 

Now as I have mentioned you should continue looking for a job. If you have an offer before you need to provide documents regarding your financial situation you should be in a strong position. Even if you don't get a new job but send the documents as is you have some chances, as someone in your position actually does seem to have a lot of financial security, but that will depend on the specific officer. (e.g. some years ago Probezeit was considered bad, but in IT know people who received their NEs in the Probezeit.)

 

Again, lots of advice is Land-specific. To increase your chances you can read the VAB ABH Berlin: https://www.berlin.de/labo/willkommen-in-berlin/service/downloads/artikel.274377.php

 

Good luck.

 

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