S1 Health Insurance and Brexit Questions

32 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

Indeed. And also thanks again to @john g. for confirming that there is no good answer now  for these S1 questions. Healthcare is not a trivial matter.

  Quite right Kommentarlos.  Remiss if me not to also thank john.

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@Petedln you've fallen afoul of the local TT vigilantes I see. Don't mind them idiots. 

 

2B's answer is perfect and correct. 

 

1. Your insurance with the AOK expires on the date on the S1.

2. To continue your insurance, if you can't get a new S1, then you have to convert your status with the AOK to becoming a "volunary member" / "freiwillige Mitglied".

3. Nobody know what will happen after in terms of cross-border insurance agreements. That will be part of the deal, if any.

 

Best of luck with!

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Aside from the point as to what Petedln has been doing about planning for Brexit over the last 3 years, he asks some extremly valid questions. 

Yes of of course we can all scroll through to the DExEU, British Embassy  or perhaps more relevantly in the case of S1 health insurance, the DWP Overseas Healthcare webpages. However, firstly, only in the last few months have they been updating their Brexit relevant info seriously. But secondly, I wouldn't be taking what they state as being gospel. It is what they think they can get away with. 

 

I think it is nothing short of scandalous how the UK Government wants to deal with healthcare for us expats in the event of a No Deal. In effect they are saying, we can't continue funding it because the EU/EU governments won't allow us to. Firstly, you need to ask the question, why would the EU governments want to block funding from the UK on behalf of  UK nationals. And if there is some obscure technical reason why they can't accept it, what's preventing the UK Departments reimbursing qualifying UK nationals direct? It need not involve EU authorities at all. 

I think its just a very neat excuse for the UK Government to cut back on its commitments. In effect, let the EU take the blame and tough luck for the old buffers who've retired into Europe. I've worked in UK local government and know how the politics in these situations work. Where there is a full postbag of loud irate 

residents, taxpayers on the warpath,  or a couple of friendly old buffers seeking some clarifications, its usually the path of least resistance which is taken. I think there are too many UK expats falling too easily into the latter category. The UK Government says so , so that must be the way it has to be.  

The S1 healthcare is existential for many of us. Thank goodness the EU Parliament seem to be on our side.

If we do go through with this idiotic Brexit, which produces zero benefits for almost everyone, then we have to make sure at the very least,  the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement, where our  citizens rights have some protection, is part of it, ie No Deal is ruled out. 

 

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2 hours ago, RedMidge said:

 

2 hours ago, RedMidge said:

 

2 hours ago, RedMidge said:

Well, the op admitted he had done nothing to find out about status or plans, or events that might affect him. Not even calling AOK, or using search function.

RE UK funding of health care for pensioners- that was a privilege because of EU membership.

Oh surprise- we will not be EU members soon!

 

A privilege really? So paying national insurance contributions during our working lives gives the UK Government the right to pocket them in breach of their commitments which they signed up to, and just leave UK nationals high and dry, because they couldn't be bothered to think through the fine detail of a No Deal scenario? No private health insurance company would get away with that. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

A privilege really? So paying national insurance contributions during our working lives gives the UK Government the right to pocket them in breach of their commitments which they signed up to, and just leave UK nationals high and dry, because they couldn't be bothered to think through the fine detail of a No Deal scenario? No private health insurance company would get away with that. 

 

 

 

If you move to  a non-Europe  country ( Canada, Australia), and become resident there, you will no longer be covered by the UK NHS. You will need to join the health insurances in those countries.

Once Brexit finally happens and the U.K. Is no longer in the EU, this status may well be applicable to UK expats. We do not know for certain .

Pensions may also be affected. Canada and Australia- no increase to UK pensions!

 

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1 hour ago, RedMidge said:

 

If you move to  a non-Europe  country ( Canada, Australia), and become resident there, you will no longer be covered by the UK NHS. You will need to join the health insurances in those countries.

Once Brexit finally happens and the U.K. Is no longer in the EU, this status may well be applicable to UK expats. We do not know for certain .

Pensions may also be affected. Canada and Australia- no increase to UK pensions!

 

So what? If you move to Canada etc. you know what the rules are before you go. 

The UK Government wants to change the rules retrospectively for people who made their future plans in Europe. Changing rules retrospectively is underhand and generally condemned. Like a Council putting a road across your land without compensation. I wouldn't mind so much if the Government was prepared to offer compensation, but they weren't. Except for a laughable offer that we could be treated under the NHS. Yeah, an 1100 mile round trip from Hamburg for routine check ups. Very helpful! 

Just hope that a No Deal is avoided, for scores of other reasons too, and all this becomes academic. 

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5 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

A privilege really? So paying national insurance contributions during our working lives gives the UK Government the right to pocket them in breach of their commitments which they signed up to, and just leave UK nationals high and dry, because they couldn't be bothered to think through the fine detail of a No Deal scenario? No private health insurance company would get away with that. 

 

My understanding is that there is no connection between national insurance contributions and health care.

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12 hours ago, RedMidge said:

 

If you move to  a non-Europe  country ( Canada, Australia), and become resident there, you will no longer be covered by the UK NHS. You will need to join the health insurances in those countries.

Once Brexit finally happens and the U.K. Is no longer in the EU, this status may well be applicable to UK expats. We do not know for certain .

Pensions may also be affected. Canada and Australia- no increase to UK pensions!

 

 

AFAIK there are treaties in place between the UK and both Canada and Australia that caters for social insurance benefits such as state pensions.

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1 hour ago, Fr. Ted said:

 

AFAIK there are treaties in place between the UK and both Canada and Australia that caters for social insurance benefits such as state pensions.

The pensions are paid, but frozen, so no increases!

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11 hours ago, starkebogen said:

 

My understanding is that there is no connection between national insurance contributions and health care.

So how is NHS healthcare funded for people no longer economically active in the UK system? 

Or for that matter, for people who are still economically active. 

My understanding of the EU reciprocal healthcare system is that if you have previously paid into a publicly funded healthcare system, elsewhere in Europe, you are eligible for support in another member state. I remember discussing this with my Krankenkasse, and they confirmed that the NHS was classed as a publicy funded healthcare system. If you have been an employee in the UK , you will have made payments into NHS system, whether directly or indirectly. 

The S1 system, which the UK Government now seems prepared to wriggle out of, unless the Withdrawal Agreement is made to apply, is for those reaching state pension age. They make transfer payments, for those who have paid national insurance contributions, into the EU member state's health system. It is linked to your entiitlement to a UK state pension.    

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On 4/17/2019, 4:19:39, starkebogen said:

The NHS is funded from the total government income and borrowing.  National Insurance is just a tax and is sort of earmarked for things like pensions.  Further details here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance.

There is a clear link between entitlement to a UK State pension and the S1 form which guarentees reciprocal healthcare. And as you say, national insurance partly funds the State pension. 

https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/moving-abroad/planning-your-healthcare/

 

Anyway, even if the healthcare payments have not come directly out of the national insurance "pot", those of us with a lifetime's service in the UK  will have paid income tax, so either way we will have contributed to funding the NHS, as indeed pensioners still in the UK have. In fact, I continue to pay all my taxes into the UK system. 

 

If you have worked in Germany or are in receipt of a German pension, then the German funding rules will apply.  

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