Looking for English School

36 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, DomSA said:

PS: on the language - I am fluent in German and I am teaching my kids but at this point they will not pass the entrance German test for the "free" state schools.

 

This is not the way it works.   If your kid is in the age of mandatory school, after you register as living in one place your kid will be assigned to one school.   Then you either send the kid to that school or find a better alternative yourself.   But the default school is not something the kid has to "pass" to be admitted.     They will just take the kid and depending on how good the school is with kids that speak no German the outcome might differ vastly.   Your kid might be put with the normal German kids and that it, or if the kid is lucky they will have some extra program to support his German learning process.  Or it might be put in a "Welcome Class" which is a whole class of kids who speak no German and it is a program that started a couple of years ago to cater for the influx of refugees, but it is mostly used in primary schools and your kid is big.

 

Sorry, I can't really think of a better plan.   I would suggest you come alone to Germany and try to land a job and leave your family back home and if things work out then you plan the next step.   But even if your kid graduates back home, you have to check if the high school papers are accepted in Germany or if the kid has to do one year of Studienkolleg before going to the uni.  That would mean as well that the kid has to learn German to B2 level before going to the Studienkolleg, so around 2 to 3 years before been able to enroll in a university.   And then Studienkolleg places are very difficult to get due to the big amount of foreigners in the country.  In a big city is very difficult.   And private Studienkolleg are a bit expensive (7K a year)

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I don't have any direct knowledge of Obermeyr schools though I believe their fees are around 450€ per month. There are a few locations near to Frankfurt. https://obermayr-education.com/hp1/Home.htm.  If you use the search option here, top right, I think there are other threads relating to Obermeyr.

 

It may be an option to consider a church supported school. Your daughter may have to go back a year or 2 though this isn't unusual in Germany as in most classes, the ages of kids can vary by up to 2 years. The schools that I know of, charge a monthly fee/donation of 100-200€.  If your younger child is of primary school age, it is generally expected that they attend a school close to home.

 

Have you been applying for jobs already? As others have said, arriving unemployed it is likely to be far more difficult to find a school placement let alone rental accommodation.  Maybe easier if you have sufficient savings.  

 

Relying on public schools teaching your children German through integration courses may not be the best approach.  An acquaintance who works at a Schulamt near Frankfurt told me that the integration courses tend to only be able to offer very basic levels of German in order for the kids to scrape through a Hauptschule Abschluss.  She gave me a typical example...10-30 kids in a group, mostly from eastern countries, Africa etc. No common language. Most often, the kids have to resist one or more school years. 

 

Can you delay your move until your daughter has completed her current level of education? When we moved here, many teachers expected our daughter to learn German in a 'Deutsch als Fremdsprache' approach.  There are various tuition books available on Amazon.de that may help you to structure your teaching.

 

Good luck

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

But the default school is not something the kid has to "pass" to be admitted. 

 

But the OP wants his/her daughter to go to the Gymnasium and not the Mittelschule (old name: Hauptschule) where they have to accept everybody.

So yes, to be let into a state Gymnasium, she would have to pass the "Aufnahmeprüfung".

For Bayern, this Aufnahmeprüfung is regulated in §6 (1) Schulordnung für die Gymnasien in Bayern

 

§ 6
Aufnahmeprüfung, Probezeit
 
(1) 1Die Aufnahmeprüfung wird schriftlich und ggf. mündlich bzw. praktisch durchgeführt. 2Schriftliche Arbeiten sind in den Kernfächern zu fertigen. 3Die Aufnahmeprüfung erstreckt sich in der Regel auf alle Vorrückungsfächer der vorhergehenden Jahrgangsstufe des Gymnasiums. 4Voraussetzung für die Aufnahme ist, dass die Schülerin oder der Schüler im Unterricht voraussichtlich erfolgreich mitarbeiten kann. 5Über die Aufnahme entscheidet die Schulleiterin oder der Schulleiter.

and even then, she would also be subject to a probationary period of 6 months, see §6 (2) - (7) GSO.

 

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12 hours ago, jeba said:

Your daughter would have to visit the school to which the boarding house is attached.

Sorry, this should read ...not have to visit...

 

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8 hours ago, PandaMunich said:
Die Aufnahmeprüfung erstreckt sich in der Regel auf alle Vorrückungsfächer der vorhergehenden Jahrgangsstufe des Gymnasiums. 4Voraussetzung für die Aufnahme ist, dass die Schülerin oder der Schüler im Unterricht voraussichtlich erfolgreich mitarbeiten kann. 5Über die Aufnahme entscheidet die Schulleiterin oder der Schulleiter.

and even then, she would also be subject to a probationary period of 6 months, see §6 (2) - (7) GSO.

 

There may be some leeway for the school though (unless things have changed since 2012 - which may well be possible, of course). From a 2012 email I found:

 

Quote
nach Rücksprache mit der Dienststelle des Ministerialbeauftragten kann ich Ihnen folgende Vorgehensweise vorschlagen:
 
Ihre Kinder werden zunächst als Gastschüler in die 10. Klasse unseres Gymnasiums aufgenommen (die 11. Klasse wird nicht genehmigt!). Die letzten Schulaufgaben der 10. Klasse in den Kernfächern und die mündlichen Noten in den anderen Vorrückungsfächern gelten dann als Aufnahmeprüfung, sodass Ihre Kinder im Folgejahr regulär die 11. Klasse bei uns besuchen können.
 
Sobald Ihre Kinder an unserer Schule als Gastschüler am Unterricht teilnehmen, werden wir einen Antrag auf Änderung der Fremdsprachenfolge stellen und Latein durch Spanisch ersetzen (was auch genehmigt wird!). Ihre Kinder erhalten dann in der 10. Klasse einen betreuuenden Lehrer, der sie im Laufe des Schuljahres in Spanisch unterstützen wird. Ihre Kinder müssen am Ende der 10. Klasse in der Spanischschulaufgabe nachweisen, dass sie die Sprache auf dem Niveau einer 2. Fremdsprache beherrschen (also das Niveau B1, das man nach 5 Jahren Unterricht in einer Fremdsprache erwartet).
 
Ich hoffe, dass Sie mit dieser Regelung einverstanden sind. Ihre Kinder hätten dann einfach mehr Zeit, um sich an das neue Schulsystem und die neuen Anforderungen zu gewöhnen.
 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Holger Saurenbach
 
OStR Dr. Holger Saurenbach
Leiter des Tagesheims und Internats am Matthias-Grünewald-Gymnasium

My kids had a full year of Probezeit. During most of that year they were not give grades.

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On 4/5/2019, 12:03:35, PandaMunich said:

 

But the OP wants his/her daughter to go to the Gymnasium and not the Mittelschule (old name: Hauptschule) where they have to accept everybody.

So yes, to be let into a state Gymnasium, she would have to pass the "Aufnahmeprüfung".

 

 

On 4/2/2019, 7:29:06, DomSA said:

She cannot speak German so going to a "Gymnasium" will not be an option as she needs to speak German fluently. International schools are very expensive. Does anyone have any school suggestions I can look at?

 

From what I see the OP already realized the Gymnasium would be a very difficult path and discarded it:

 

My point is that in Germany school is mandatory until certain ages, so the kid will have to go to one school, German language or no German language, the default school they give him would be mandatory is no alternative is found.

 

P.S., In Berlin the first year of Gymnasium is probation, I've heard of cases in which the kid is kicked out of Gymnasium and send to a very crappy school and the letter comes when everyone is already in holidays, so all schools are closed and you can't do anything about it, just show up to your new school.  Pretty sneaky and horrible for the kid, at least give some chance to choose something.

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2 hours ago, Krieg said:

From what I see the OP already realized the Gymnasium would be a very difficult path and discarded it

 

No, he discarded the state Gymnasium that is taught in German.

 

However, he/she does want his/her daughter to finish school with a certificate that will allow her to go to university, as you can see from the fact that he/she was looking at the European School:

On 4/2/2019, 7:29:06, DomSA said:

Have found the European Schools on the Internet however need to find out if they teach all subjects in English?

 

At the European School, there is an English section that is taught entirely in English.

The European School also has the advantage that all pupils get the "European Baccalaureate", i.e. all European university-path school leaving certificates at once:  https://www.eursc.eu/en/European-Schools/European-Baccalaureate

 

This was meant as a gift to European civil servants who moved with their families to another EU country, because that way their children would for certain (no pupil ever fails in the European School) get the exactly same school leaving certificate as they would have gotten in their home country, i.e. their children were not disadvantaged through the move.

 

Here's a list of all European Schools (in Germany, they are in Munich, Karlsruhe and Frankfurt am Main):  https://www.eursc.eu/en/European-Schools/locations

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@ OP: You know that as a German citizen you can move to other EEA countries as well (some of which are English speaking), don´t you?

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I would add "Phorms" to the potential schools. They are a German/English school, lower cost alternative to international schools.

 

Also remember that some international schools offer some sort of "grants" to low income families. BIS, for example, offers some support for families with income lower than 90k-95k€. Phorms also does it:

 

https://muenchen.phorms.de/en/admissions/tuition-fees/secondary-school/

 

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

From what I heard, you can´t find a place in Munich.

 

If you look on page 1 of this thread:

 

On 4/4/2019, 4:21:29, PandaMunich said:

We do have an European School in Munich (which teaches entirely in English in its English section), but its places are taken up by category I children, i.e. children of people working at EPO in Munich (it's free for them) and category II children, whose parents work at a few specific companies that have contracts with that school to provide places.

So there are no spaces left for category III children like your daughter would be.

 

You might want to ask at the European School in Karlsruhe, they may have spaces for category III children:  https://www.es-karlsruhe.eu/admissions/admissions-criteria-and-fees/

Pricing (taken from the Munich site, but the fees are the same at all European schools, i.e. the schools catering to employees of European institutions): https://esmunich.de/en/our-school/for-parents/school-fees.html 

 

Anyway, we are continuing this conversation between ourselves, DomSA hasn't been back on Toytown since 4th of April.

However, maybe it will help somebody else in his/her situation.

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3 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

This was meant as a gift to European civil servants who moved with their families to another EU country, because that way their children would for certain (no pupil ever fails in the European School) get the exactly same school leaving certificate as they would have gotten in their home country, i.e. their children were not disadvantaged through the move.

 

So in other words, the OP just needs to a find a job at the EPO or one of the specific companies that can get them into category II?

 

4 hours ago, Krieg said:

My point is that in Germany school is mandatory until certain ages, so the kid will have to go to one school, German language or no German language, the default school they give him would be mandatory is no alternative is found.

 

It varies by Bundesland and it not always age, sometimes it is only the number of school years. A foreign child who moves to Germany after completing 9 years of schooling does not necessarily have much mandatory schooling left.

 

For example, in Berlin:

 

Quote

(4) Die allgemeine Schulpflicht dauert zehn Schulbesuchsjahre und wird durch den Besuch einer Grundschule und einer weiterführenden allgemein bildenden Schule erfüllt.

Die Schülerinnen und Schüler können das zehnte Schulbesuchsjahr auch durch den Besuch einer beruflichen Schule erfüllen, wenn sie die Berufsbildungsreife erworben haben und der Schulaufsichtsbehörde ein Berufsausbildungsverhältnis im Sinne des Berufsbildungsgesetzes nachweisen.

 

Source: SchulG Berlin §42 (my bold)

 

If the OP's child has already repeated a year, the kid would no longer be required to attend school. Furthermore, after already attending 9 years of school abroad, the kid would only need to attend 1 year of school (regardless if the kid actually learns anything or not in that year).

 

17 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

But maybe it will help somebody else in his/her situation.

 

I agree with you, however, do you think that you could provide a simple explanation of how the Beschulungspflicht of schools' ties into the Schulpflicht of children? I don't think I've been to effectively bring my point across.

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33 minutes ago, engelchen said:

... do you think that you could provide a simple explanation of how the Beschulungspflicht of schools' ties into the Schulpflicht of children? I don't think I've been able to effectively bring my point across.

 

I think @kato is more qualified than me to do that.

 

If he doesn't, I will attempt to, but I don't think there is a simpler explanation than the one you already provided 

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Not quite sure on the discussion, but:

 

Beschulungspflicht is not a legal term, but one used informally to describe the inverted duty of the state to provide schools for those upon whom the state obliges the duty to attend school.

 

Basically, if a state has Schulpflicht (as all states in Germany do), they need to provide a school where children can attend - and they need to make sure, provided no legal alternative (e.g. a private school) is found that children attend it too.

 

Since in most state school laws the Schulpflicht is described merely as "attending a school until age x" or "for x years" there is no requirement for the school to be "suitable" or for the child to be able to reach any particular degree of education either. It only needs to be attended after all.

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I guess children can learn German very fast.

If I were you, I would let the child go to German school and mingle with German students.

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3 hours ago, SmurfLee said:

I guess children can learn German very fast.

If I were you, I would let the child go to German school and mingle with German students.

There is much more to it than just learning a new language.

 

After 2 years of talks with other parents, and with our (very bad) experience from German (private!) Kindergartens, we decided that the German educational system was not for our son.

And looking back now I realize it was the best decision we´ve made since moving here.

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