Are electric cars actually more envionmentally friendly?

62 posts in this topic

15 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

BTW, this highlights one of the few drawbacks of driving a Tesla: you will be harassed by other drivers in Germany. They will try to push you to see what autopilot does. I noticed it even on my test drive. My colleague says it happens from time to time.

 

What a cool idea!    (Although I would not do it in practice)

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

That is a good point I wanted to clarify. Are you allowed to record those images in Germany? And use them to clarify an accident?

 

There was some other post on here which discussed it.  I think last year a judge ruled that in court dashcam footage can be used but only if there is no other method of determining what happened (e.g.  conflicting statements).

 

But I think that insurance companies would always be happy to see such "clarifications!"

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31 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

That is a good point I wanted to clarify. Are you allowed to record those images in Germany? And use them to clarify an accident?

 

 

yes you can a German court ruled on it last year

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-trial-privacy/dashcam-footage-gets-top-german-court-approval-for-car-crash-cases-idUSKCN1IG1LO

 

However, it does say that it should be limited to not more than several hours

from the link :

“It is technically possible to create a short recording of an accident itself, for instance by continuously overwriting what is being recorded but only saving it permanently when an accident happens,” it added.

 

Maybe Tesla will need a software update for this

 

 

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52 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

That is a good point I wanted to clarify. Are you allowed to record those images in Germany? And use them to clarify an accident?

 

 

Yes, you can't share them with third parties or post them online or publicise them though.

Here's the relevant court case

 

With the V9 update ( I think it was V9 ) you can record to a USB stick in 10 minute periods - it writes over the last 10 minutes unless there is a crash ( or stick removed AFAIK )

I have a separate system ( not the Tesla System ) built into mine

 

In both of my cases, the Poizei made a copy and I believe one Dildo had some points in Flansburg as a result.

 

Edit : you can record for longer periods with a larger flash drive it seems 

 

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Point being that there aren't enough stations to handle the need in some areas. Most likely where there are a lot of apartment/condo dwellers.

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Who cares if electric cars are environmentally friendly?  They are REALLY fun to drive.  It's not a golf cart, unlike what many may think.  "Whoops I didn't notice, but I'm doing 200kph"  --every Tesla driver since the S75D.  Despite its stupid looks, even the i3 is fun to drive and surprisingly nimble from the stoplight. 

 

And electricity is cheaper than diesel and petrol.  When VW starts making the ID.3 in numbers you'll really start to see some savings with the upfront costs. 

 

Obviously most people DGAF about the environment, so appealing to the fun/money aspect is what it'll take to get them in EVs.  Just sayin'.

 

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from here, you are almost always better to drive an older ICE car than get a new Electric car.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-used-cars-are-more-ecofriendly/?redirect=1

 

The environmental damage of making a new car is high in comparison with running an older  ICE car.

 

The only exception is in bigger cities, where ICE cars produce high local emissions, then e-cars can keep the local environment cleaner than running older ICE cars - but where there is no -localpollutionproblems, a new car manufacturing will almost always pollute the environment more than running an ICE car into the ground.

 

Its well known that  in order to preserve battery life, its best to keep the battery's in the 20-80% range capacity, once you go outside this range, some battery damage will occur. However its small and people who want to make a long journey - trade of damaging their battery with getting to the destination more quickly.

 

One of the problems, that will occur more often with electric cars, is that they take about 30-40 mins to get a reasonable range, compared with ICE cars at only 5 mins. In bigger cities its hard and expensive to find places where you can park up for 30-40 mins. To service the same number of cars ( e or ICE ) you will need 8 times the number of charging units ( for e cars ) as they take 8 times longer to charge, so you need 8 times the space - as said expensive in bigger cities. Of course if you can charge at home and do your journey with re-charging there is no problem.

 

I think its un-fair, just to look at one or 2 items that cause pollution, ie just comparing ICE cars with e-cars. One should look across a range of things, for example because I moved counties, I want to go back home sometimes, to see family etc, so -I fly - this causes a lot of pollution aswell, and the story goes on. Look at your total energy requirements

  

 

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We should also take note... "Most" cities that have real bad air polution are those that are sat directly on or next to a shipping Canal or Huge river...  

 

The boats/Barges spew out raw or poorly treated exhaust gases...    

 

Plus, I think Tobaco smoke also plays a part in the air quallity arguement... 

 

 

 

 

 

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In that case, one should get a used BEV, and not fly so much.

 

OR you can buy a new BEV to force the hand of the established automakers to start offering BEVs beyond the compliance weirdmobiles they've been offering. 

 

30 minutes ago, yesterday said:

...

The environmental damage of making a new car is high in comparison with running an older  ICE car.

 

...

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, yesterday said:

from here, you are almost always better to drive an older ICE car than get a new Electric car.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-used-cars-are-more-ecofriendly/?redirect=1

 

The environmental damage of making a new car is high in comparison with running an older  ICE car.

Environmental impact of making the car is only a small part of an ICE damage to the environment.

 

Quote

Its well known that  in order to preserve battery life, its best to keep the battery's in the 20-80% range capacity, once you go outside this range, some battery damage will occur. However its small and people who want to make a long journey - trade of damaging their battery with getting to the destination more quickly.

You can push the 100% a few times per year without any measurable impact. Taxi drivers push to 100% more than once per day and the battery still lasts over 200.000km.

 

Quote

One of the problems, that will occur more often with electric cars, is that they take about 30-40 mins to get a reasonable range, compared with ICE cars at only 5 mins. In bigger cities its hard and expensive to find places where you can park up for 30-40 mins.

To service the same number of cars ( e or ICE ) you will need 8 times the number of charging units ( for e cars ) as they take 8 times longer to charge, so you need 8 times the space - as said expensive in bigger cities. Of course if you can charge at home and do your journey with re-charging there is no problem.

Tesla gets 120km in 5 minutes. There goes your complicated problem. Also most people will just compensate commutes at home or at work, so in fact you will need much less space for charging stations than for fuel stations.

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5 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

...

Tesla gets 120km in 5 minutes. There goes your complicated problem. Also most people will just compensate commutes at home or at work, so in fact you will need much less space for charging stations than for fuel stations.

 

 

it's a shame that most people only ever stop driving their cars to refuel.  If I were able to let my car sit for example in a garage overnight or on the street while I'm at the office I'd be able to meet 98% of my charging requirements then. 

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Mike...  

 

I am a field service engineer, ie, I get called out to maintain /repair a Data transfer system at a Petrol Station...  

 

I need to be there within 5 hrs of the call... 

 

Lets say that my "E" car was fully charged, I get to my appointment within 4hrs... 2 hrs work... then 4 hrs back... 

 

 

In my ICE vehicle, I can be there and back within 10hrs ...   How long would it take with an EV?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, CincyInDE said:

 

it's a shame that most people only ever stop driving their cars to refuel.  If I were able to let my car sit for example in a garage overnight or on the street while I'm at the office I'd be able to meet 98% of my charging requirements then. 

 

Life is complex.  Turns out that from an environmental point of view we should get out of local busses and into our cars.  Of course we need to actually stop running the busses, not just run them empty. But in principle assuming we dont have trams or trains in our villiages then actually a car is sometimes either the best or the only choice.  Sure a bike is better still, but we shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.  Cars have a place.

 

To be clear, I live in Berlin, I neither need nor have a car. But even here I try not to judge people who do.

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3 minutes ago, CincyInDE said:

If you are serious, use A Better Route Planner to figure it out.

If you don't want a BEV anyway, then you're just concern trolling.

That site is shite!

 

You plan it for me...

 

Start at  Reckenroth 56370...  Appointment is  Merklingen 89188... 

 

Battery is full at starting pont... 

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7 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Life is complex.  Turns out that from an environmental point of view we should get out of local busses and into our cars.  Of course we need to actually stop running the busses, not just run them empty. But in principle assuming we dont have trams or trains in our villiages then actually a car is sometimes either the best or the only choice.  Sure a bike is better still, but we shouldnt throw the baby out with the bath water.  Cars have a place.

 

To be clear, I live in Berlin, I neither need nor have a car. But even here I try not to judge people who do.

 

I'm not sure I follow you.  Are battery electric vehicles not cars?

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Ah, sorry, I understood " it's a shame that most people only ever stop driving their cars to refuel." as a suggestion people whould stop driving and use other transport.  I see that you were actually talking about efficiency (use waiting time to charge etc).

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