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All Boeing 737 MAX Aircraft Grounded

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the "theft was from a database that is separate from any internal system," and which is designed for event registration. The bank says no internal or market-connected systems were breached.

 

then 

 

“There aren’t material damages for the bank and its clients from these attacks,” Tonella said. “No data, such as passwords allowing access to customer accounts or allowing for unauthorized transactions, has been affected.”

 

my god you just shoot yourself in the foot everytime, don't you?

 

I take back what I said before...you are becoming entertaining.

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But Mike, it has everything to do with software because it's software that runs the systems and that's my gripe. We are losing control of everything and it isn't really for our benefit. Banks use more and more remote systems, they want us to have contactless cards, they want us to have apps on our smartphones because it means they can make more money. And how long will be before someone designs an App that can bypass fingerprint recognition?

 

Aircraft are inherently simple things that work within the laws of Physics, Helicopters aren't, theoretically they shouldn't even fly. But we as always make them more and more complicated and then we add things to counter some side effect from something else that was added earlier and then you reach a point where actually you end up with something twice as big, twice as expensive and twice as unreliable as the original article for doing the same job. Classic aircraft example. BAE Harrier, originally designed in the 60's the first true VTOL aircraft. Now we have the F35, does the same job but no where near as good when compared to cost and size and I dare say reliability.

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12 minutes ago, razorsandroses said:

The website was breached... you do undertstand the difference between a institutional website and an online banking website?

 

12 minutes ago, razorsandroses said:

Mostly useless data, they can´t use it. And that is the strength of the system. Even if some data is stolen, you cannot use it. And that actually proves my point.

 

12 minutes ago, razorsandroses said:

 

Dude...pour yourself another glass of "Shut the hell up" and go color in your coloring book. You have absolutely ZERO idea what the hell you are talking about and just spouting off random fabricated claims you pulled out of your ass.

 

Here's a straw for you.

"Dude", stop doing "10 second google searches" with unfundamented stuff.

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1 minute ago, French bean said:

But Mike, it has everything to do with software because it's software that runs the systems and that's my gripe. We are losing control of everything and it isn't really for our benefit. Banks use more and more remote systems, they want us to have contactless cards, they want us to have apps on our smartphones because it means they can make more money.

Not because they can make more money. Because of competition between them.

1 minute ago, French bean said:

 

And how long will be before someone designs an App that can bypass fingerprint recognition?

Biometric security is in general flawed. Can you make bank transfers with fingerprint? No.

 

1 minute ago, French bean said:

 

Aircraft are inherently simple things that work within the laws of Physics, Helicopters aren't, theoretically they shouldn't even fly. But we as always make them more and more complicated and then we add things to counter some side effect from something else that was added earlier and then you reach a point where actually you end up with something twice as big, twice as expensive and twice as unreliable as the original article for doing the same job. Classic aircraft example. BAE Harrier, originally designed in the 60's the first true VTOL aircraft. Now we have the F35, does the same job but no where near as good when compared to cost and size and I dare say reliability.

As I always say to my software team "software makes up for hardware deficiencies". This is the current R&D paradigm and overall it is vastly more efficient than previous processes. You can reduce time to market by a factor of 5 or more. So things won´t go back to the "old days".

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5 minutes ago, French bean said:

 Banks use more and more remote systems, they want us to have contactless cards, they want us to have apps on our smartphones because it means they can make more money. And how long will be before someone designs an App that can bypass fingerprint recognition?

 

I like how people criticize new alternatives because they are not perfect, but they are totally happy using the old alternative that was utterly crap.

 

What's the old alternative to mobile payments?   Cards for which in some shops you are not even asked for any pin, you just have to sign something similar to the signature in the card.   There is not even a limit in how many transactions you can do in that way, you can forever continue signing payments as long as the card is not blocked.

 

And let's say someone designs an app that bypass fingerprint recognition in ANOTHER app.  Let's assume that thing is even possible.  Well, I choose not to install that bypassing app.   What's the problem?

 

Then if you lose your phone you block your account, just like you do when you lose your card.  So how is mobile payment bad?

 

P.S., When you lose your phone you don't have to actually block your account, you call them and they remove your phone as a "known device connected to your account".   You can install the app in a new phone and connect the app again.

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11 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

"software makes up for hardware deficiencies"

 

absolutely.  And sometimes the "hardware" is people, who can be extremely error prone, themselves.

 

The alternative to software based management of financials is a PAPER based system.  Why the heck that would be preferable let alone more secure is totally beyond me.

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40 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

the "theft was from a database that is separate from any internal system," and which is designed for event registration. The bank says no internal or market-connected systems were breached.

 

then 

 

“There aren’t material damages for the bank and its clients from these attacks,” Tonella said. “No data, such as passwords allowing access to customer accounts or allowing for unauthorized transactions, has been affected.”

 

my god you just shoot yourself in the foot everytime, don't you?

 

I take back what I said before...you are becoming entertaining.

 

 

And later:

 

Cybersecurity experts are bracing for a wave of ever-more-ambitious hacks to hit in months to come, while their ability to catch perpetrators is often limited. Banking leaders are worried about more than the theft of customers’ data or money: cyber-criminals might also damage account databases and render them unusable, said Becky Pinkard, vice president of service delivery and intelligence at Digital Shadows Ltd., a London-based cyber-defense firm.

“Banks are justified in their fear of corrupted data,” Pinkard said. “Attackers could harm the bank by adding or subtracting a zero to every balance, or even deleting entire accounts.”

 

But I'm glad I was able to entertain you for the 5 seconds it took you to gloss over that link. Might want to talk to your doctor about increasing your ADHD medication.

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1 minute ago, razorsandroses said:

“Banks are justified in their fear of corrupted data,” Pinkard said. “Attackers could harm the bank by adding or subtracting a zero to every balance, or even deleting entire accounts.”

 

 

I like how people who write those articles think that the whole bank database is a single database in which a hacker can connect and make "update Balance = Balance + 1 million" and no one will realize it.   

 

That crap is so complicated that even for the people programming the transactions is utterly complicated with all the trace you have to leave behind when you want to update something.

 

But I don't blame the writers illiteracy, most times the people doing the bank's PR do not have themselves a clue about what they are talking about and they do not care to ask someone in the bank who knows.   Or probably they are not really interested in communicating the reality.

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54 minutes ago, French bean said:

 Banks use more and more remote systems, they want us to have contactless cards, they want us to have apps on our smartphones because it means they can make more money.

 

Ok, how do they make more money if you use an app?  Because they can have less staff?  But if they have less staff, you can also choose to do all your banking online and switch over to a free account so in that case, you do benefit.  Or if you want to stay with a brick and mortar bank, there's nothing stopping you from just going there every week and withdraw the money you need, cash.

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12 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

Ok, how do they make more money if you use an app?  Because they can have less staff?  But if they have less staff, you can also choose to do all your banking online and switch over to a free account so in that case, you do benefit.  Or if you want to stay with a brick and mortar bank, there's nothing stopping you from just going there every week and withdraw the money you need, cash.

Unfortunately the banks are closing down branches, a lot of people live in remote places with poor transport links so cannot go to branches, they also find dealing with a call centre stressfull and not very helpful. Previous experience for me was talking to a call centre in India or somewhere, I couldn't understand the other guy, turn that round to someone trying to help a person from Glasgow or the North East. Customer service is about the customer, not the business. Unfortunately the choice of doing banking online or not is also being removed, a number of people will very soon not have that choice. Nothing is free with regard to the Banks.They need the liquidity that all our small accounts give them so that they can lend and make more money but they do not pay us to use our money, we may get some paltry interest but no where near what other forms of savings will give you and not all banks will pay interest.

 

Companies make more profit through 3 things, increase prices, reduce costs or by increase volume of sales. Banks can't really increase prices, they don't make a tangible product. Increasing sales volume is very hard in a saturated market place so controlling costs is really the only viable option and that means reducing their cost base through increased technology.

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Have you seen the video for the driverless car that hit the woman on her bike?  She wasn't just biking down the road, she was pushing her bike across a major road at night, not at a crosswalk, with little illumination. She suddenly appears in front of the car. I don't know if I could have stopped in time.  If you jump in front of a car, you will get hit - no matter who the driver is.

 

Also our roads and systems are not currently built out for driverless cars.  In the future, the road will be outfitted with sensors and each car will communicate with each other (e.g. a car in the other lane,one passing earlier, or stationary cameras on the road would have communicated to look out for someone on the roadway) leading to better safety.  

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I'm still confused about the title of this thread. AFAIK only the Max 8 and 9 have been grounded in some places. I'm not aware of any problems with the original 737 Max.

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The 8 is the original Max, there will be 2 other Max's introduced but will have a lower designation such as max 6 and 7. These haven't been delivered yet.

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Thank you both. I was beginning to think this was a cyber-security in banking thread.

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3 hours ago, BradinBayern said:

each car will communicate with each other

 

let's hope they don't include the bird in car parlance.

 

can you imagine?  forget the terminator, we'd have something far worse on our hands:  robot road rage

 

on a serious note, just the reduction in horn use would be an almost incomprehensible improvement in some places.  Like, imagine NYC without the constant din of all those horns.  It will be a completely different experience (for the better, IMO)

 

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19 hours ago, French bean said:

It really pisses me off when just about everything requires software these days

 

like the interweb you're on right now?

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16 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

like the interweb you're on right now?

He hands over post-its to his son, which then posts on this forum :D

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