Brexit - letter from my employer to take to the Ausländerbehörde

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Hello Toytowners,

 

As a Brit who arrived on 1 April 2014, I don’t qualify for 5 years’ residency till 2 days after Brexit. Luckily I have an appointment at the Ausländerbehörde in Kreis Viersen on 1 April.

 

I have loads of documentation prepared, in the hope that I can get a Niederlassungserlaubnis on that date.

 

My employer has offered to write me a letter saying that they have employed me for 3 years and that my job needs me as a native English speaker (a kind of Vorrangprüfung letter I guess). I said great, thanks, and then they asked me specifically what they should write.

 

I assumed just facts (employment dates, position, key responsibilities) and the need for English as well as German, but has anyone else had anything similar and should they include more information? What would an application letter to grant employment to a third-country national look like?

 

Thanks in advance! 

 

Auntie Helen

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(if applicable) If there is a deal, I would also ask them to mention ANYTHING about needing to travel and work in other EU countries as part of your job.

 

If you have accumulated qualifications and training via your employer (or with their blessing if done privately outside of work hours), it might be worth them mentioning that too.

 

Many EU countries talk about only usually allowing employment of non-eu managers, specialists and "qualified" individuals, so anything from your employer that sheds you in that light might be helpful.

 

See below link also

https://www.anerkennung-in-deutschland.de/html/en/third_countries.php

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Of course I won't get deported over two days. I have every expectation of getting some kind of magic piece of paper to assure my residence in Germany. 

 

I know all the requirements for the Niederlassungserlaubnis and I fulfil them all except the 60 months pension (but I have a statement from my UK pension) and a B1 language certificate (but I speak C1 German so am hoping the chatting with the Beamter will be enough). I have two degrees but have not had them recognised by Germany as I don't think it's worth it - I won't earn the magic high threshold anyway. I only work part time.

 

I am just hoping to reduce the amount of additional paperwork I should give to the Beamter at a second visit, and if the letter from my company shows all the information she needs to know about my job, then that saves extra work.

 

I have been preparing for Brexit as much as possible (I have a 3cm thick file of paperwork to take with me to the meeting, just in case!), including Einbürgerungstest, but nothing can make up those missing two days. However, Germany has told us all that we have three months to get our paperwork in order anyway after Brexit, so I don't understand why RenegadeFurther is in such a panic. He has a German wife and child, I am a divorced Brit and my German hasn't yet completed his divorce so we can't marry before Brexit anyway.  I guess they would be more likely to throw me out than him, but they won't throw me out.

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On 3/9/2019, 1:16:17, Auntie Helen said:

I don't understand why RenegadeFurther is in such a panic. He has a German wife and child

 

Where do u get your information from? I spoke to the abh and the latest information was that a German wife and a German daughter offers no guarantees to be allowed to stay.

 

Sure I am pissed but it is what is it and you have to think about a back up plan rather than hoping that someone will give u some goodwill.

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On 3/9/2019, 1:35:07, RenegadeFurther said:

a German wife and a German daughter offers no guarantees to be allowed to stay

 

Mate, it may not be guaranteed but it's as good as. 

 

Look, if Joe Random from Australia, Canada or Kyrgyzstan can marry a German and get to stay then I'm pretty sure a Scot can.

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6 hours ago, Auntie Helen said:

I assumed just facts (employment dates, position, key responsibilities) and the need for English as well as German, but has anyone else had anything similar and should they include more information? What would an application letter to grant employment to a third-country national look like?

 

That covers it as far as I can see.  They may care about continuous employment (ie unbefristet, no probezeit), about Vorrangsprüfung and that's about it. Salary if it's over the blue card limit (shouldn't matter, but showing fulfil the requirement wouldn't hurt).

 

Knowing a few expats here I'd say you are likely better prepared than most, at least those I know in person. 

All I really hear of is people taking citizenship or getting married, those who didn't manage either seem to be winging it.

 

FWIW I'm in a very similar position to you, but over 5 years. 

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On 3/9/2019, 1:35:07, RenegadeFurther said:

a German wife and a German daughter offers no guarantees to be allowed to stay...

 

Bollocks, you fall into constellation C and your residency will not be affected by Brexit. As I posted before:

 

LRA.jpg.bfc804742edc987b9b62beb39f3b758c

 

Stop scaremongering.

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On 3/9/2019, 4:23:18, RenegadeFurther said:

Why has Germany refused to guarantee the rights of Brits?

 

Because the alien reptile illuminati know that Brexit it the first stand of the human resistance?

 

Stop acting like the world is coming to an end, you are not getting deported.  If anything I am at far higher risk than you, because I am a brit that isnt married to a german.  I am 100% sure they are not coming around at the weekend with a bus of jackbooted beamter to deport me.  You are safe, calm down.

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On 3/9/2019, 4:23:18, RenegadeFurther said:

Why has Germany refused to guarantee the rights of Brits?

 

Why should the German government do anything, they didn't cause this mess, the UK did.  Until the British government decide what they want to do next, no EU country can make any major decisions about this.  You've done all you are willing to do regarding staying here, now you'll have to wait and see what happens, just like everyone else. Nobody has any answers for you at the moment because we (the EU) have never been here before.  Sit tight and wait, you're not the only person in this situation, but I suspect there'll be some decisions over the coming weeks.

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On 3/9/2019, 4:23:18, RenegadeFurther said:

Why has Germany refused to guarantee the rights of Brits?

 

Which country has?

 

Lets face it, Brexit was about immigration, and the only reason why the UK and allowing EU nationals to stay in the UK is because if 3 million people left then the economy would collapse even more.

 

100k brits leaving the UK would not have a big impact, if any.

 

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20 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

Which country has?

 

First one that springs to mind is Malta with their recently announced 10 year permanent residency for British citizens who were resident before March 30th. On the face of it that sounds pretty cast-iron.

 

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On 3/9/2019, 7:16:33, Auntie Helen said:

My employer has offered to write me a letter saying that they have employed me for 3 years and that my job needs me as a native English speaker (a kind of Vorrangprüfung letter I guess). I said great, thanks, and then they asked me specifically what they should write.

 

I would personally wait until the interview and find out directly what they would like to see in whichever set of circumstances they see you as. If you need to go through a Vorrangsprüfung, then forms will need to be sent to the Bundesagenteur für Arbeit. This will take time.  In this case your Tätigeitsbeschreibung and the title of your role as written in your employment contract will be central in deciding whether your job cannot be done by someone in the EU. You could perhaps take a look in advance to see if they are robust enough.

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I think your answer shows why this approach of "we already have rules for third country nationals, they will apply from 30th of March" approach is confusing and baffling to some employers and employees.

 

I am in a slightly different situation to the OP because I have only been here permanently for under 2 years and have no degree, but having spoken to both HR and the Betriebsrat, they seem clueless as to what will happen post-March because if I were a third country national 2 years ago they don't feel that I would have been able to obtain the relevant permit or blue card based on lack of a degree, plus on top of that that they say that the rules do not cover a situation where a worker loses their EU citizenship overnight.

 

My employer is under the impression that if the rules are enforced retrospectively and rigidly to the absolute letter, then they will need to relocate me to Ireland, the UK, or Switzerland (apparently as an internal transfer I would be eligible for a Swiss B permit from the post-Brexit UK quota) after three months of a no-deal. They are hopeful that either the Withdrawal passes parliament and rights are protected for the next couple of years, or that they get more information on how the third country rules will apply to people who were originally employed as EU citizens. 

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The whole situation is appalling. Until (or indeed if) the Beamte receive new instructions they are working on the basis of past precedent. There is nothing else they can do to reassure either. 

 

And what happens if people do not / are not able to convert their status successfully within the 3 months after a potential hard Brexit? Do they then need to go to the Ausländerbehörde and apply for permission to leave the country? How do they cross the border without a valid visa? 

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Today I had my appointment at the Ausländerbehörde. The appointment was for 11am which, coincidentally, is exactly the time I arrived in Germany five years ago, on 01.04.2014.

 

I had a thick folder of documents including Einbürgerungstest, the above-mentioned letter from my employer (which was very nice), loads of other blurb.

 

What they actually needed was a photo, my passport, the completed document for Kreis Viersen entitled "Antrag auf... Erteilung einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis/Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis/Erteilung Daueraufenthalt - EG". I had already completed as much of this as I could and printed it out, but it didn't really fulfil the criteria of what I was hoping for, a Bescheinigung auf das Daueraufenthaltsrecht für Unionsbürger.

 

First bit of information, Kreis Viersen doesn't do the Bescheinigung for Unionsbürger, so that was a non-starter.

 

She said because Brexit hadn't actually happened I couldn't get any of the other documents, but that they would complete my application and hold it on file so that I could get one of the other documents as soon as it became valid. So passport photo, fingerprints, and they also needed to look at my last few payslips and the 2018 pay summary.

 

I didn't understand 100% of what the lady was saying (I am partly deaf, she didn't speak clearly and was using some terminology) but I wasn't keen to ask her to explain too much as I haven't done my B1 German exam and hoped my apparent C1 language level was enough.

 

What she did say was that this would give me when the time came an "unbefristete...", so that looked good. 

 

I said I was concerned that when Brexit happened my permission to work in Germany would suddenly be rescinded and they said no, that remains. So that was a relief, although I hadn't actually expected that (but RenegadeFurther kept going on about it).

 

So anyway, seems I have to sit tight and wait for Brexit to happen before anything comes of this document. But we shall see.

 

 

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Hi, the situation in Berlin seems to be clearer and maybe elsewhere too by now.

I had my appointment last week. All required documentation was explained in the email invitation - a four page application form, biometric photo, marriage cert. (if married), letter from employer (if employed) etc.

I now have an Niederlassungserlaubnis (permanent residency permit) in my passport. I suggest you wont need anything else.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederlassungserlaubnis

Best Regards / Freundliche Grüße

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