Still waiting for KSK but artist visa extension is approaching

8 posts in this topic

Hi all,

 

I know there are many post about KSK and artist visa but I don't seem to find the answer for my case.

 

So I was granted artist visa about 7 months ago but I have been away for art related job on and off and I just start my application process with KSK recently.

 

My visa extension is approching and it is likely that I will not be able to get into KSK on time for my visa extension.

Can i ask if anyone has successfully extend their artist visa while still waiting for KSK?

Can I bring email exchange document with KSK so that the ABH knows that it is not like I will not get into KSK?

 

Or perhaps the ABH would give me fiktionbescheinigung until I get in to KSK?

 

Am I going to be kicked out of German soil? :unsure:

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10 hours ago, nrwninja said:

Hi all,

 

I know there are many post about KSK and artist visa but I don't seem to find the answer for my case.

 

So I was granted artist visa about 7 months ago

 

No, you weren't. We covered that topic 5 months ago:

 

On 18.9.2018, 02:14:52, someonesdaughter said:

 

Contrary to common belief there is no "artist visa" as such – it is a visa for self-employed persons that allows self-employment for certain occupational fields. 

 

...

 

10 hours ago, nrwninja said:

but I have been away for art related job on and off and I just start my application process with KSK recently.

 

"Recently"? I told you five months ago:

 

On 17.9.2018, 23:30:07, someonesdaughter said:

 

I suggest you do it now – KSK take 4-6 months to make a decision anyway. 

 

 

Why have you waited so long?

 

10 hours ago, nrwninja said:

 

My visa extension is approching and it is likely that I will not be able to get into KSK on time for my visa extension.

Can i ask if anyone has successfully extend their artist visa while still waiting for KSK?

 

There is no "artist visa". Since you came to Germany, have you had even one single order within the scope of your visa (21 Abs. 5)? 

 

10 hours ago, nrwninja said:

Can I bring email exchange document with KSK so that the ABH knows that it is not like I will not get into KSK?

 

The correspondence (or also an admission into the KSK) does not bring you anything, if you cannot prove that you get orders here in Germany. By the way: do you have health insurance? 

 

 

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So, I'm going to challenge the "no artist visa" thing a bit. Legally, there is no such thing. However, sometimes the Ausländerbehörde has a different visa policy in practice for artist visas. And it is not an unspoken, undocumented, case-by-case thing in practice, but rather in some cases there are documented differences in how the visa should be handled for artists in the Verfahrenshinseise/Verwaltungsvorschriften. Even though the overall legal category is the same as the freelance visa (section 21 paragraph 5).

 

The original poster should check the Verfahrenshinweise or Verwaltungsvorschriften for their Ausländerbehörde to know if this is the case where they live. But I noticed that in Berlin, while artist visas are the same legal category as freelance work, there is a specific section on page 197 that discusses how visas for artists and language teachers should be handled, including differences in health insurance requirements!

From https://www.berlin.de/labo/_assets/zuwanderung/vab.pdf page 197:

Quote

Künstler und Sprachlehrer

Bei einem Aufenthalt von Künstlern ist stets von einem übergeordneten wirtschaftlichen Interesse der "Kunst- und Filmhauptstadt Berlin" auszugehen, welcher positive Auswirkungen auf die Wirtschaft erwarten lässt und damit das Ermessen grundsätzlich zugunsten des Ausländers auszuüben. Dies können sowohl bildende Künstler, als auch freiberufliche tätige Musiker, Schauspieler, Regisseure u.a. sein. Auch bisher nicht renommierten, aber besonders kreativen Künstlern soll im Rahmen des § 21 Abs. 5 Aufenthaltsgesetz ein Aufenthalt ermöglicht werden.

Auch bei Sprachlehrern, die nicht als Beschäftigte tätig werden wollen, sondern etwa Sprachkurse auf dem freien Markt anbieten, gilt Gleiches. Hier ist im Interesse der Touristenmetropole Berlin grundsätzlich von einem besonderen regionalen Bedürfnis auszugehen, und sind positive ökonomische Auswirkungen zu erwarten. Will der Ausländer dagegen als Honorarkraft für einen Kunden oder eine Sprachschule tätig werden, so ist dies grundsätzlich wie eine Beschäftigung zu werten und die zuständige Arbeitsagentur etwa auf der Grundlage des § 11 Abs. 1 bzw. § 26 BeschV zu beteiligen (zum Verfahren in Zweifelsfällen vgl. die Ausführungen zur Erforderlichkeit eines Antrags auf Feststellung des sozialversicherungsrechtlichen Status bei der deutschen Rentenversicherung Bund). Auch hier müssen entsprechende Qualifikationen (Uni-Abschluss, Diplom, Bachelor of Arts etc.) vorgelegt werden.

 

Besonderheiten beim Lebensunterhalt für Künstler und Sprachlehrer

Ist auf Grund der vorgelegten Unterlagen davon auszugehen, dass die Tätigkeit als Künstler oder Sprachlehrer das Erwirtschaften des eigenen gesicherten Lebensunterhalts im Sinne des § 2 Abs. 3 ermöglicht, so ist der Titel ohne das Beteiligungsverfahren nach § 21 Abs. 1 S. 3 zu erteilen und zu verlängern.

Kann der Lebensunterhalt nicht allein durch die beabsichtigte Tätigkeit gesichert werden bzw. ist dies zweifelhaft,sind im Rahmen der Prüfung des § 5 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 auch andere geeignete zusätzliche Finanzierungsnachweise zulässig (Nachweis sonstiger regelmäßiger Einkünfte, z.B. aus eigenem -auch im Ausland vorhandenen- Vermögen, regelmäßige Überweisung unterhaltspflichtiger Eltern, Abgabe einer Verpflichtungserklärung eines solventen Dritten u.a.). Alle Unterlagen zum Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung sind zur Akte zu nehmen.

Auch bei der Verlängerung eines Titels nach § 21 Abs. 5 gelten für Künstler und Sprachlehrer bzgl. des Nachweises des Erfolgs der freiberuflichen Tätigkeit geringere Anforderungen als bei der Verlängerung eines Titels nach § 21 Abs. 1 oder 2 (vgl. hierzu oben 21.4.2). So bedarf es zum Nachweis eines dauerhaft gesicherten Lebensunterhalts und einer auch wirtschaftlich erfolgreichen selbstständigen Tätigkeit nicht der Vorlage eines Prüfungsberichts sondern genügen auch andere geeignete Nachweise (z.B . Netto-Gewinn-Ermittlung des Steuerberaters, Steuerbescheide, Kontoauszüge, die einen regelmäßigen Mittelzufluss belegen, Abrechnung mit Galeristen und Auktionshäusern u.ä .). Alle Unterlagen zum Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung sind zur Akte zu nehmen.

 

Besonderheiten bei der Krankenversicherung für Künstler

Für die Erteilung und Verlängerung einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis nach § 21 Abs. 5 für Künstler ist die Vorlage einer Reisekrankenversicherung ausreichend, solange davon auszugehen ist, dass die Betreffenden aufgrund der künstlerischen Tätigkeit (noch) nicht dauerhaft im Bundesgebiet verfestigt sind. Etwas anderes gilt, wenn im Rahmen der Lebensplanung absehbar ist, dass eine dauerhafte Verfestigung im Bundesgebiet beabsichtigt ist. Dies gilt insbesondere dann, wenn Familienangehörige im Wege des Familiennachzugs ebenfalls ins Bundesgebiet zuziehen wollen bzw. ein unbefristetes Aufenthaltsrecht beantragt wird.

 

This may be a specific provision for Berlin due to specific local economic interest in the arts, and I'm not sure other cities have this (but it is worth checking).  But it seems to emphasize lower requirements in some cases, including that travel insurance is acceptable if someone is only temporarily in Berlin! However, if someone is renewing their visa, probably this paragraph doesn't apply unless they can show that they aren't here long-term yet.

 

Anyways, all of the above doesn't really answer the original poster's question directly and they should check the regulations their Ausländerbehörde uses rather than the ones quoted above to see if there is a similar section. If there is a similar provision in Düsseldorf, it is possible that if they can actually prove they have been away due to their work that they may be able to get a visa with travel insurance.

 

But the safer bet if they are worried, or if they try that and it fails, would be to find some cheap private, non-travel, BaFin-approved insurance while waiting for the KSK application to process. Normally this is a pain to switch away from, so I'd be cautious about it if they don't already have private insurance, but if approved the KSK would immediately allow them to switch to public and require back payments anyways, so it may not be a terrible option. Probably the best option would depend on how likely it is that their KSK application gets accepted. And yes, they could try and go with travel insurance and emails from the KSK and try to get a Fiktionsbescheinigung. If their Ausländerbehörde has a similar provision as Berlin does, that could very well work.

 

Also, the poster doesn't say if they had insurance or not here. It's possible they may already have gotten insurance (as, after all, it sounds like a visa was approved once). If they have acceptable insurance already and are just worried that the Ausländerbehörde will want to see that they are accepted to KSK, then they probably don't need to worry. The Ausländerbehörde mostly cares that people have acceptable insurance somehow, not if they are in the KSK or not. Although showing that you applied for the KSK certainly can't hurt.

 

The lack of orders in Germany could be an issue, but depending on how Düsseldorf processes it, they may have similar provisions where acceptable resources in general (personal assets, orders in another country, etc.) are enough for a visa to be granted even if there aren't specific German clients. This may be location-dependent though, so again check the manual if it is available.

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Evening, Zeitbuch! Nice post!

Without revealing a name..a friend of mine, an insurance broker, once wrote to Obama...it went more or less as follows: " Dear President Obama, I´m an insurance broker in Germany and admire your efforts to modernise/civilise the health insurance system in the United States.

Just a tip: " don´t do it the German way! Keep it simple  "...

:lol::lol:

By the way, if I remember rightly at this Godforsaken hour: there are two Ausländeramts in Hamburg (known as Welcome Centers )...they have different rules to each other!!!

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3 hours ago, Zeitbuch said:

including that travel insurance is acceptable if someone is only temporarily in Berlin! However, if someone is renewing their visa, probably this paragraph doesn't apply unless they can show that they aren't here long-term yet.

 

Anyways, all of the above doesn't really answer the original poster's question directly and they should check the regulations their Ausländerbehörde uses rather than the ones quoted above to see if there is a similar section. If there is a similar provision in Düsseldorf, it is possible that if they can actually prove they have been away due to their work that they may be able to get a visa with travel insurance.

 

Thanks, Zeitbuch, for a generous post. I have actually moved to Berlin and this raises my hope up.

I am away about 6-7 month out of 12 months last year solely for work related reason. I wonder if this can be considered to be the case as “not yet permanently grounded in Germany”.

 

And also I wonder (as this is a visa extension) if this point can be used against me? that I have little to no purpose to be in Germany? (I want to stay because I can see a lot of art exhibitions that my home country can’t provide), also my art project jumps from one country to another - means I don’t have enough reason to be in the other country either.

 

Sorry if it the word “artist visa” is irritating to someone. I am aware that theoretically there is no such a thing but I just thought that it would make my situation more clear to people.

 

Again to Zeitbuch, do you know if this document https://www.berlin.de/labo/_assets/zuwanderung/vab.pdf is accessible in English from anywhere? It is super useful and I want to master it. Kudos to you!

 

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11 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

There is no "artist visa". Since you came to Germany, have you had even one single order within the scope of your visa (21 Abs. 5)? 

 

 

The correspondence (or also an admission into the KSK) does not bring you anything, if you cannot prove that you get orders here in Germany. By the way: do you have health insurance? 

 

Thanks for this, I did participated in a few art events in Berlin and also I was nominated for one art prize in Germany. All these activities in Germany are unpaid. I had a few paid art activities abroad. Is this the “orders” you referred to? Did you ask because this is a mandatory evidence rather than KSK for ABH?

 

4 hours ago, Zeitbuch said:

 

But the safer bet if they are worried, or if they try that and it fails, would be to find some cheap private, non-travel, BaFin-approved insurance

Also, the poster doesn't say if they had insurance or not here. It's possible they may already have gotten insurance (as, after all, it sounds like a visa was approved once). If they have acceptable insurance already and are just worried that the Ausländerbehörde will want to see that they are accepted to KSK, then they probably don't need to worry.

 

 

I have health insurance from care concept, very cheap and cranky but I am young and healthy and all. I think it is not Ba-Fin approved, though I was granted visa a few times in Düss using this insurance company. Is it a good idea to use it in Berlin for the extension along with proof that I have applied for KSK? 

The ABH in Düss did said last year that i need KSK for next time but it might work differently in Berlin as stated in the PDF?

 

thanks to you both

 

 

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7 minutes ago, nrwninja said:

Thanks for this, I did participated in a few art events in Berlin and also I was nominated for one art prize in Germany. All these activities in Germany are unpaid. I had a few paid art activities abroad. Is this the “orders” you referred to?

 

No, not really. You don't get a visa (or an extension) to view art exhibitions here, but to earn money. You have to prove that you are not becoming a burden for the German state (aka the taxpayers). 

 

It remains to be seen how the Aliens Department will assess the fact that you were not staying in Germany at all for six to seven months within a year. The question might arise why you have to be registered in Germany at all. 

 

7 minutes ago, nrwninja said:

 

Did you ask because this is a mandatory evidence rather than KSK for ABH?

 

Yes.

 

7 minutes ago, nrwninja said:

 

I have health insurance from care concept, very cheap and cranky but I am young and healthy and all. I think it is not Ba-Fin approved,

 

You are expected to have German or Bafin-approved health insurance from day 1. Hopefully you are aware that since your registration in Germany you will most likely have to backpay the fees. If you are admitted to the KSK, you will only have to pay about half of the regular amount (approximately the other half will be paid by the KSK) - but you will also have to pay half of the statutory pension contributions (the other half will be paid by the KSK). 

 

7 minutes ago, nrwninja said:

though I was granted visa a few times in Düss using this insurance company. Is it a good idea to use it in Berlin for the extension along with proof that I have applied for KSK? 

 

KSK is not a health insurance company. But there is no harm in bringing along the correspondence or a copy of the application. But it wasn't smart for you to have waited so long. 

 

7 minutes ago, nrwninja said:

The ABH in Düss did said last year that i need KSK for next time but it might work differently in Berlin as stated in the PDF?

 

KSK is not a health insurance company, you need German or Bafin-appoved health insurance. 

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I don't think https://www.berlin.de/labo/_assets/zuwanderung/vab.pdf is available in English, but the part relevant to your visa is page 187 to 199 and you can probably machine translate that. Note that there are two types of freelance visas discussed there and yours is section 21 paragraph 5 (21 Abs. 5). Although there are other sections that may have relevant regulations in general as well.

 

Being away for 6-7 months could be an issue as it may mean that your current visa is technically invalid as stays abroad for over 6 months without permission invalidate most residence permits. I'm not sure how this would be handled if it were split up over multiple trips, and I doubt they will scrutinize it, but it could still technically be a problem that could come up depending on how you explain that you were out of the country much of the time. 

 

Artists are technically supposed to be insured with the KSK in Germany, but in practice that doesn't always happen and the KSK doesn't always accept all artists. The Ausländerbehörde probably mostly cares that you have valid health insurance rather than about the KSK specifically. The KSK is just a way of paying into the normal public health insurance, except it is a special system where artists only pay half as an employed person would rather than both the employer/employee parts as most self-employed people must. 

 

You could always try to renew with your current insurance and proof that you have applied for KSK. If that fails, most likely they will explain the problem (need better health insurance, more German clients, etc.) and ask you to fix it and come back.

 

If you have contracts, invoices, bank statements, etc. for the orders abroad, that would be helpful to show them as proof you can support yourself. Also if you can get letters from people running the local events you participated in confirming your participation etc. that could at least show that you are engaging with the local market/field.

 

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