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Shamima Begum.. IS Teenage Defector wants to return

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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47276572

 

So.. One of the 3 teenage Brits that left the UK nearly 4 years ago want to return to Britain...

 

Personally... She should stay put!   Dont wish her any harm.. but she made her bed.. She has to lay in it... 

 

Whats the chances she is trying to get back to the UK to create a New IS cell?     

 

Thoughts please!

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I don't know. I think that with all returnees though, they need to be assessed on a case by case basis.  I saw somewhere that she said she did not regret going there.  If that's the truth, what does she want to go back to the UK for?

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Being indoctrinated at such a young age, she believed that things would be all tickety boo in Syria.

She now knows what a hell hole she's living in and prefers a more comfortable life in the UK and all she's entitled to.

She is not allowed to be stateless, so the UK government are compelled to let her in.

Can't see that she's going to form a new terrorist cell as she'll be watched like a hawk after her release from prison.

This might however set a precedent for others choosing to do this knowing they have a safety net.

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2 minutes ago, hooperski said:

Can't see that she's going to form a new terrorist cell as she'll be watched like a hawk after her release from prison.

This might however set a precedent for others choosing to do this knowing they have a safety net.

Nah, she will become a celebrity (hate preacher) among those animals, that is the danger.

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It's kind of sad to hear that life in a UK prison might be more comfortable than in Syria.

But if the girl's reason for returning truly is about saving her newborn child, then she could surrender the child to the grandparents (as in meet them at a British consulate in Turkey etc.).

 

Having her return (even to prison) IMHO requires her being definitely deprogrammed first. The interview doesn't quite demonstrate that.

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Quote

 

A teenage girl who fled Britain to join Islamic State has said the Manchester Arena bombing was “justified”.

In an interview with the BBC, Shamima Begum, now 19, said the deaths of 22 innocent people in the terrorist attack on an Ariana Grande concert in 2017 were akin to the “women and children” being bombed in Syria.

She said: “I do feel that it’s wrong that innocent people did get killed. It’s one thing to kill a soldier that is fighting you, it’s self-defence, but to kill the people like women and children.

“Just people like the women and children in Baghuz that are being killed right now unjustly, the bombings. It’s a two-way thing really.

“Because women and children are being killed back in the Islamic State right now and it’s kind of retaliation.

“Like, their justification was that it was retaliation so I thought ‘OK, that is a fair justification’.”

 

 

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4 hours ago, Metall said:

It's kind of sad to hear that life in a UK prison might be more comfortable than in Syria.

But if the girl's reason for returning truly is about saving her newborn child, then she could surrender the child to the grandparents  we know were the first education led to: IS terrorist..

Having her return (even to prison) IMHO requires her being definitely deprogrammed first. How do you deprogram people?

 

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4 hours ago, Metall said:

 

Having her return (even to prison) IMHO requires her being definitely deprogrammed first. The interview doesn't quite demonstrate that.

 

Deprogrammed?   Is there a UK law about this?    What do you mean "returned" to prison?  Obviously she enrages people, but these outcomes are just deranged fantasy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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She left when she was 15.     She is clueless.    It is inflammatory to run her story on the front page.     Classic agitprop.  

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10 hours ago, LeonG said:

If that's the truth, what does she want to go back to the UK for?

 

Her previous two kids died there and she wants this one to be born and grow up in safety. 

 

I think the British government has made a reasonable point that although she is stateless and they do have to take her back, they are under no obligation to ensure the process takes place - she currently has no consular access and she has to get herself to a consulate to start the ball rolling. They are not prepared to undertake some kind of extraction action. Seems fair enough.

 

The child is different - her mistakes should not mean the suffering of a third child.

 

Sad that this kind of radicalisation goes on, families are torn apart and the horror grows..

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The Baby should, in this case be removed from the mother and put in the care of its grand parents... 

 

That could be organised without much trouble... after all, the BBC seem to know where they can all be found.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, SpiderPig said:

The Baby should, in this case be removed from the mother and put in the care of its grand parents... 

Christian foster parents. Or better, Jewish.

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She would surely have to be thoroughly deprogrammed if she's not going to post a risk on returning to the UK. If successful, that might make her valuable, if she could prevent others from following the same path. On the other hand, she didn't seem too articulate in her BBC interview so maybe isn't all that bright.

 

Here's a discussion from This Morning on the subject, involving a white woman who'd been groomed by extremists (and seems possibly even more inarticulate than Shamima Begum): Should the ISIS schoolgirl have her baby in Britain?

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Why spend tax payers' money this way? Frankly, let 'em rot. I have no sympathy.

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It's not a question of sympathy (except for the child), but rather, Shamima Begum and other ISIS joiners are principally products of the countries from which they came (yes, even if they have immigrant backgrounds), and countries in the war zone, regardless of who is currently ruling them, should not be burdened with their care/imprisonment.  They deserve punishment proportionate to the crimes they have committed, and yes, fair trials.  Syria, Iraq, etc, have burdens enough handling their existing internal conflicts.

 

There is a larger context at issue, though, in that the actual post-ISIS period is being handled poorly, that is, in a manner that is likely to "sow dragon's teeth" and lead to the rise again of ISIS or phenomena like this.  This long New Yorker article is chilling:

 

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/12/24/iraqs-post-isis-campaign-of-revenge

Quote

 

Throughout Nineveh Province, camp administrators and workers routinely deprive ISIS-linked families of food, clean water, and medical services. The N.G.O. country director told me that he had travelled more than two hundred miles from Baghdad, “to make sure that our Iraqi staff are not falling into these types of revenge attitudes.” He added, “They say, ‘These people killed my family, and now I have to help them?’ ” In some camps, humanitarian workers offer aid in exchange for sex. Many women are pregnant from having been raped by the security forces or from having sex to feed themselves and their children. Although the fighting has ended, “these camps are meant to stay,” the N.G.O. director said. “If you are ten years old now, and you have no food, no assistance, and your mother has to prostitute herself to survive, and the whole of Iraqi society blames you because you were close to ISIS—in two, three, four years, what are you going to do? It’s clear. The seeds for the next conflict are all here.”

 

At a police compound in West Mosul, I asked a colonel named Mezhar Sedoon whether he thought that the camps are creating more security problems than they are solving. “Some of the mothers in the camp are raising ISIS children, but others have become prostitutes,” he said. He laughed. “Money-money, fucky-fucky!” he said in English. “I’d rather they become whores than raise terrorists!”

 

Some women try to carry out abortions inside their tents. Others give birth, and discard the babies in unpopulated parts of the camp. Those who are found alive often end up in the care of Sukaina Mohammad Ali Younnis, an Iraqi government official who is in charge of women’s and children’s issues in Mosul. Over tea in Erbil, the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan, she showed me hundreds of photographs of children she has found in camps, on the streets, and dead in trash cans. Earlier this year, she saw someone throw a bundle out of a car, and found that it was a baby boy. She showed me a video of herself cradling him in the back of an ambulance, as blood bubbled out of his nostrils. He died on the way to the hospital.

 

But the kicker, IMO:

 

Quote

The other woman was Umm Hamad’s niece. She was in her twenties, and spoke softly and wistfully of the past. “Everyone in my family welcomed the Islamic State, except my youngest brother,” she said. “He hated them.” Throughout the occupation, she and her other brothers had tried to convince him of the merits of the caliphate, to no avail. Then he was arrested by the Iraqi security forces, under suspicion of ISIS affiliation. He was twelve years old. She has no idea where he is, or when he will get out of prison—she knows only that, if the government doesn’t kill him, by the time it lets him go it will have taught him that she was right.

 

The context being that every Sunni civilian in parts of Iraq, even those who one might ordinarily see as victims of ISIS, live under fear of sectarian militias...which was precisely what happened right after the fall of Saddam Hussein, which led to the creation of ISIS... 

 

So, British or no, it's not an option to decide to leave "them" to rot, whether or not they are British or Iraqi or whatever. It's been done before, and the results were bad.

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EI: that is indeed very chilling and, from the comfort of my computer, I could solve solve all the problems in the world..or rather..not. No chance..shame..

Basically, you are describing the pitiful condition of humanity as it stands..and always has. We have immense technological, medical etc progress..immense..but when it boils down to it: we are but a veneer away from barbarity at any second.

And it´s not only the " terrible Westerners/imperialists/capitalists/Communists "..it´s us all in principle.

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