Cologne Brexit Meeting - Wed 13th Feb

158 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, kiplette said:

you have a giant timescale to get A1

 

Wrong verb tense. "He has had..." To not be at A1 after so many years in Germany is simply arrogant and disrespectful.

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There is someone with IT skills over on the Brit FB thread who is dyslexic and can't do the German. He'll be fine, or so his company says.

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1 minute ago, kiplette said:

There is someone with IT skills over on the Brit FB thread who is dyslexic and can't do the German. He'll be fine, or so his company says.

 

Dyslexia does not stop you from learning by ear A1 German.

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1 hour ago, AlexTr said:

Siemens AG is an easy one. In the last 4 or 5 years, Siemens AG has laid off about 10k people in Germany, mostly in SG&A, prompting HUGE conflicts with IG Metall. Now, let's say Siemens has the chance to PAINLESSLY cut around the same number of people from SG&A in Germany with no real pushback from IGM as IGM is strongly nationalist. Also, let's say that SAG offers to IGM that they will use the newly created vacancies to re-employ some of the previously cut German employees because now they are not constrained by an abundance of unlimited contracts with now no-longer-EU-citizen employees. The AB goes along with it because they do not have any motivation to protect non-EU, much less non-German citizens.

I have no special insight other than what I read, but I think this is plausible given the results when you google "Siemens layoffs Germany".

 

I was thinking along these same lines and also that it might give companies a chance to get rid of undesirables who they otherwise can't fire. That is, of course, if staying in Germany is tied to one's job.

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Is there no writing at all at A1? I thought there was a little bit. And reading comprehension, surely? I imagine as you say that the spoken would be just fine.

 

To be fair, I may be mis-remembering that it was dyslexia only - and I do not have the FB skills to find his post again. Certainly his point was that he has no German quals, isn't likely to get any, and there is no problem expected. 

 

replying to your comment above - if RF is in an english speaking job, married to someone who doesn't want to speak German with him and has had no need to learn, and in his case I think had a bad experience of a course at the start, then that's life. Now he may actually need it, it is worth the trauma.

 

We have loads of ex-soldiers/Kaserne employees with pathetic German here. They have their own social life, their partners are their interface with the Germans, and it is irrelevant.  Shame, but that's how it is (there are also obviously loads who are fluent and completely integrated). Some British people do come with this ingrained mindset that English is always enough. Unfortunately a lot of the time it's true, which just adds to the problem.

 

 

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People should still have the same workers rights when they are fired and be able to hire a lawyer if they feel they are unfairly dismissed whether they are here on a work visa or not. They should also still be able to be members of a Union and the Union will want to stand up for them otherwise other people will think twice about joining the Union and paying their fees. Firing people whose faces don't fit isn't something that only applies to foreigners but happens to natives as well.

 

The UK leaving the EU is just going to mean that people will need a different mind set but shouldn't be a problem provided people are able to slightly change their way of thinking. I have known several people from the UK who have moved to Oz and Canada (still with UK citizenship) and don't have any issues along with several people who have lived here in Germany for several years who are from Oz, NZ and South Africa.

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11 minutes ago, kiplette said:

Is there no writing at all at A1? I thought there was a little bit

 

That is easily sidestepped by normal testing adjustments for dyslexics. For example, the multiple choice section would be read aloud to the examinee and the letter writing section, as limited as it is, could be dictated by the examinee to a designated writer.

 

Many, many organizations have standards for testing. 

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@RenegadeFurther's kid is like 1 year old and assuming the kid goes to the university RD will be safe in Germany via his kid until he/she is 26 years old.  So 25 years from now to pass the A1 test, which is basically "Hello, my name is RD and I come from the UK", "My hobby is complaining about immigrants and Muslims in Internet forums" plus some few basic nouns, adjetives, some articles and cases.   And then you do not have to score everything perfect in the test to pass it.

 

AFAIK RD's wife is German, so I assume the kid will speak German with its mother at home.   Until now RD has been actively avoiding German language for years, but for the next 25 years he will be exposed to German conversations at home every single day.   

 

And then, assuming he still does not pass the A1 test, they will either give him temp visas every 6 months or just give up and remove the language requirement for him after 35 years living in Germany if he is able to reply "Ja" when the civil servant asks him "Do you want to stop coming here?".    No one will kick out a person from Germany after living here for so long, except if you are a proven serial killer or something like that.

 

P.S, Probably we will be all dead before RD's kid is 26 years old.

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2 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

That is easily sidestepped by normal testing adjustments for dyslexics. For example, the multiple choice section would be read aloud to the examinee and the letter writing section, as limited as it is, could be dictated by the examinee to a designated writer.

 

As I said, the point of the post is that this chap was maintaining that he has no German quals, is unlikely to get any, and his company foresees no future problems visa-wise. Maybe they are wrong, who knows? Just threw it in the mix since that aspect of it was relevant - not so much the possible test-taking adjustments.

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Just now, kiplette said:

 

As I said, the point of the post is that this chap was maintaining that he has no German quals, is unlikely to get any, and his company foresees no future problems visa-wise. Maybe they are wrong, who knows? Just threw it in the mix since that aspect of it was relevant - not so much the possible test-taking adjustments.

 

I think Blue Card holders do not have German language requirements.   Actually I think no permit for qualified jobs have language requirements.  The language requirements come only when you are a dependent of a German or when you want unlimited status.

 

I might be wrong and things might have changed along the time.  But I and my now wife came here as non-EUs with no German knowledge.  And then during our time we could get NE status if we could just talk good enough German to the civil servant during the application.  

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@paulwork  - I live in Cologne but am unable to to the meeting tonight so if you or anyone is going, can you provide an update as to what was discussed (if it's anything new)?

 

Thanks

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6 minutes ago, kiplette said:

 

As I said, the point of the post is that this chap was maintaining that he has no German quals, is unlikely to get any, and his company foresees no future problems visa-wise. Maybe they are wrong, who knows? Just threw it in the mix since that aspect of it was relevant - not so much the possible test-taking adjustments.

 

Well, it also depends on how much of a unicorn he is. That's always true.

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6 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I think Blue Card holders do not have German language requirements.   Actually I think no permit for qualified jobs have language requirements.  The language requirements come only when you are a dependent of a German or when you want unlimited status.

 

That does make sense, thank you.

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13 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

I think Blue Card holders do not have German language requirements.   Actually I think no permit for qualified jobs have language requirements.  The language requirements come only when you are a dependent of a German or when you want unlimited status.

 

Does that mean I can apply for a Blue Card instead of a Spousal Visa? Will I have a choice what I apply for?

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Just putting it out there that Germany has been very public in their wishes for the UK not to leave the EU, but at the same time warning that the benefits of EU membership will not be extended to non-members. The UK has created this situation, the EU is simply responding. Compared to what non-EU citizens need to go through in order to migrate to the UK, Germany has to be seen as a cakewalk. 

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14 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

I think Blue Card holders do not have German language requirements.   Actually I think no permit for qualified jobs have language requirements.  The language requirements come only when you are a dependent of a German or when you want unlimited status.

 

I might be wrong and things might have changed along the time.  But I and my now wife came here as non-EUs with no German knowledge.  And then during our time we could get NE status if we could just talk good enough German to the civil servant during the application.  

 

 

Looks like there's been a change.

 

Quote

The EU Blue Card

The EU Blue Card is a residence permit, initially generally awarded for a four-year period, available to nationals of third countries who have a university degree or equivalent qualification with the aim of enabling them to take up employment on the basis of their qualification. A further prerequisite is that the individual can supply evidence of an employment relationship through which a minimum annual salary of two-thirds of the annual contribution assessment ceiling for general pension insurance (2019: EUR 53,600) will be earned. With regard to professions for which there is particular demand in Germany, the salary limit has been lowered (2019: EUR 41,808).

Holders of an EU Blue Card who can prove that they have been in qualified employment over a period of 33 months and that they have paid (compulsory) contributions to statutory pension insurance or comparable benefits are granted a permanent settlement permit. Provided that the individuals concerned can demonstrate having language skills at level B1, the settlement permit is granted after a period of 21 months.

Proof of German language skills is not required in the case of accompanying spouses or spouses who subsequently move to Germany to live with their husband or wife.

Spouses of holders of an EU Blue Card have immediate access to gainful employment.

 

I know when I applied for my family unification unlimited NE a few years ago that I was required to have B1 and the test of general knowledge of German culture, laws and society or some such complete with certification letters and examination results. I am and have always been self-employed in Germany, am non-EU, and am married to a German with significant wages.

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2 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Does that mean I can apply for a Blue Card instead of a Spousal Visa? Will I have a choice what I apply for?

 

Non-EUs can apply for the visa they want, as long as you fulfill the requirements you will get it.   But why in the heck would you prefer a more limiting visa than staying as the father of your German kid that give you immediate unrestricted access to the job market and access to welfare if you needed.  For the next 25 years.

 

 

P.S., It is very strange that you guys had literally years to learn how the German immigration system works and here we are, 45 days from Brexit and you have no clue about it.

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1 minute ago, Krieg said:

 

P.S., It is very strange that you guys had literally years to learn how the German immigration system works and here we are, 45 days from Brexit and you have no clue about it.

 

Come on, no one thought a no deal was going to happen.

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3 minutes ago, AlexTr said:

 

I don't see any change.  It is like all the other cases, Blue Card holders only need to learn German if they want NE status.   But you can stay forever with limited permits and never learn any German.

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1 minute ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

Come on, no one thought a no deal was going to happen.

 

Plenty of British people applied for citizenship in the EU country they live just in case.   So plenty of people saw if a as possibility.  

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