Ketogenic Diet Anyone?

68 posts in this topic

There is a hypothesis out thare that carbs can´t be absorbed/digested if you heat them and let them cool down again. They have a name for these carbs, which is currently escaping me. The claim is that thereby the molecular structure is changed in such a way that it can´t be broken down by digestive enzymes. I´m highly sceptical though as that would mean you could eat e.g. bread and still not gain weight from it. After all, most people don´t eat it when it´s still hot.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, jeba said:

There is a hypothesis out thare that carbs can´t be absorbed/digested if you heat them and let them cool down again. They have a name for these carbs, which is currently escaping me. The claim is that thereby the molecular structure is changed in such a way that it can´t be broken down by digestive enzymes. I´m highly sceptical though as that would mean you could eat e.g. bread and still not gain weight from it. After all, most people don´t eat it when it´s still hot.

 

 It has been shown that repeated cooking and cooling   (x 3) of sweet potato turns much of the carbs into a fibre like form.  God knows if there are any vitamins left, or how fuck awful they must taste.  Have read stuff about this for rice, though it varies on variety and most calorie loss is modest.  You could just cook rice, leave it out of the fridge for a few days, eat it, and get food poisoning.   Weird weightloss strategy but might work.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it's known that cold/settled starch has a lower 'glycemic index' than piping hot. So potato salad from taters left in the fridge overnight will cause less insulin spiking versus hot mashed potatoes. I don't know more about it, just that basic effect. The starch 'gels' again and becomes more complex, sort of like how jello melts in your mouth versus its setting in the fridge. Of course carbs will generally be absorbed, but more complex carbs will need slightly more/longer enzyme action. 

 

A banana is a better energy boost than a can of redbull, for example. Believe it or not, but the overall effects last longer and are just as comparable in overall 'energy', just without the spike of the green stuff.

 

Might be interesting: 

https://www.bluezones.com/recipes/food-guidelines/

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am trying keto at the moment and was very sceptical. Mostly the stuff that has been said already. But it is working really well for me. However, there are quite a few people in my group that have decided to quit because it is not really for them/ they don't feel comfortable/ their keto flu lasts two weeks etc. I think everyone has to find out what they are happy and comfortable with and what works for them. 

The same goes for ketosis, from what I understand. 30 g/day is usually the starting point and once people are used to the new diet, they will start increasing carbs to find out what their personal limit is. It varies widely. 

I read a lot before starting and the fibre problem seems to have been addressed by some nutritionists as well. Because "clean keto" also excludes a lot of foods that normally provide fibre They currently promote a low carb high fibre approach. 

 

After cutting calories, limiting xyz intake etc. this is actually the first approach where the success is not based on a massive calorie deficit. It's interesting, to say the least. I do not miss the after-meal-coma that would hit me after e.g. pasta. But the jury is still out! 

What I am still sceptical about is the long term applicability of a diet where most calories are consumed in the form of fat. You also create a deficiency so your body will have to transform its fat cells into sugar to power the brain. And - like in most things that differ significantly from the main stream - a lot of the keto disciples are just just that: disciples. Anyone who questions anything about their chosen holy grail is a heretic, a dissenter that cannot, must not be trusted. A critical discourse, the questioning of assumptions is not allowed. I dislike that kind of approach intensely. Not just when it comes to nutrition. So I stick with the sensible ones and avoid arguing with the nutters. 

An example: One keto proponent was loudly proclaiming the "gluten is bad", "gluten is harmful" mantra. But he didn't know what gluten actually does in flour, that it is a protein, that is not the only protein in grain, that not just wheat contains gluten etc. Oh well. 

 

Off topic: One of my friends in school was truly gluten intolerant - i.e. coeliac disease. While it is nice that there are now a whole lot of foods available for her, last time I spoke to her, she was slightly annoyed with the "I can't have gluten" crowd that has sprung up over the last few years. Self-diagnosed and loud. Because some people do not take her illness seriously anymore - "oh, I'm gluten intolerant, too!". Really? "yes, I always feel so bloated" Yeah, but for her that means bloody diarrhoea and vomit, cramps and possibly a trip to the hospital.

 

There seem to be so many food fads at the moment and everyone takes themselves way to seriously, I think. It's food! It's supposed to get you up and running and taste good. And, as we know, you can't argue about taste!  

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, maxie said:

a lot of the keto disciples are just just that: disciples. Anyone who

questions anything about their chosen holy grail is a heretic, a dissenter that cannot, must not be trusted.

 

these diet disciples are the same reason I stay far away from IF (intermittent fasting) groups.  I read articles written by body builders and nutritionists, and they are usually a lot more balanced and informative than some of the more fanatic groups and message boards for IF. 

 

It really is funny about the coeliac fad. Some people--like myself--don't feel well after eating large amounts of anything, in my case simple carbs really make me feel bad so although they are usually delicious, reducing them has been easier since doing IF (easier to "read" the body's responses to individual things after you've been fasting for 16 hours).  Used to eat two pieces of bread with breakfast, found that it made my workout hard, cut down to one piece and increased the protein instead, eliminated bread with soup, small bowl of pasta as opposed to heaping etc).  Real coeliac sufferers will know it not because they feel a bit sluggish after carbo overload but by their stool and because their bodies are not absorbing enough nutrients, and so on...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, alderhill said:

A banana is a better energy boost than a can of redbull, for example. Believe it or not, but the overall effects last longer and are just as comparable in overall 'energy', just without the spike of the green stuff.

 

 

The main sugar in bananas is fructose, which is comprised of two glucose molecules, if i remember correctly.   There is a bottleneck in processing that sugar as an enzyme is needed to cleave the two glucose molecules apart.    I have never understood why bananas are a staple at the aid stations of most running events.  It isn't like potassium is required to finish the race, and the sugar enters the bloodstream slower than it would after ingesting a small piece of bread.  

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2021, 9:13:20, dessa_dangerous said:

 

And they will put that weight right back on once they start eating them again.

 

Nutritionists talk about weight re-gain not as a theory or hypothesis but as a fact.  Anyone who goes on a "diet" and loses a significant amount of weight WILL regain some of that weight.  The question is, how much, and how fast.  Obviously, the goal is to gain back as little as possible.  But they all seem to agree that re-gain is a thing that few can escape, unless they do their diet forever, which could mess up their metabolism in the long run.

 

When I hear about Keto, I think that few people can do that diet forever.  Few people want to.  They want to be normal people and eat normal things with the other normal people.  But they also want to lose weight.  So they do this Keto diet, which they kind of have to think about constantly while they're doing it, lose a load of weight, and put it all back on again within the year after they start introducing carbs back into their lives here and there.  I don't know if it is sustainable.  If it is--and if it isn't--more power to anyone who wants to do it.  I do intermittent fasting, and I love it. I think I am not a Keto because I will never ever count calories again in life (been there, done that, never ever putting myself through that hell again) and I probably eat too many carbs and definitely nowhere near enough meat (and never red meat/pork). 

 

I agree. A diet is a short-term solution. For a long-term solution you need to change what or how you eat for good. My suggestion would be to eliminate highly processed foods not fat or carbs as a group.

 

My friend is a fan of intermittent fasting like you. Works for her well.

 

Enough protein will reduce the hunger feeling. You don't need meat for this though. There are more than enough plants that are good sources of protein. Refined carbs will not do that for you. If you eat beans or meat you usually stop eating when you are full. You don't overeat as much as you would with chocolate and chips for example. But it's also unlikely that you overeat on healthy carbs. How many kilos of blueberry or cucumber or bananas could you eat? There is a limit here which is more difficult to find with processed foods. Maybe because they are not as nutrient dense as unprocessed foods? Not sure...but I think to find out which foods reduce the hunger feeling is helpful.

 

People are different though and everyone needs to find what works best for them. 

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I have tried this diet myself, and I am still on it. I don't do "no carb", but rather "low carb." I probably eat between 50-100g of carbs per day, when I used to eat a few hundred!

 

A guy at work turned me on to it, and I must say, in 9 weeks I have gone from 90kg to just under 83kg, and that is great! I think it is mainly just the fact that now I have to look at the makeup of each thing I want to eat, and that filters out a whole bunch of crap like chips, cookies, and so on. I also avoid too much bread or pasta. Potatoes strangely enough only have around 20g of carbs per 100. I try to eat anything in the range of 5g-20g of carbs per 100, and that way it is not TOO extreme, but I do notice a weight loss.

 

And for bread, check Edeka for the protein bread. It is low carb, and high protein!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now