Ketogenic Diet Anyone?

40 posts in this topic

I'd never needed to diet for weight loss though after a long period of illness many years ago, I did need find a healthier eating plan to generally feel better and lose some weight.  The 2 diets that worked very well were an updated Hay diet and blood group diet.  I was never extremely strict though I notice now when I veer away from the principles, I gain weight, feel sluggish and generally unwell. 

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From what I've read and experiment on myself, I wouldn't do keto 'permanently', but for a period of some months on a rotating basis, sure. Fasting is also quite normal throughout human history, either through adverse conditions or for religious reasons. My parents are Catholic enough that we fasted during Lent growing up, as well as on certain feast days and leading up to religious holidays like Christmas day. 

 

I've done keto diets for a period of a couple months on a few occasions. Not for weight loss or anything, but I do a lot of cycling, weight-lifting and then rowing-canoeing-kayaking in warmer months, and was curious what effects it would have. Well, it does keep hunger pangs away.

 

The main issue for me doing it long-term is that my wife is vegetarian (for over 25 years). She almost can't live without bread (the dark dense stuff Germans love), potatoes or breakfast müsli, and admittedly I've got used to those too. We make almost all meals from scratch as much as possible, minimal refined foods. Regular diet includes pulses, veggies, salad, eggs, seeds and nuts, fancy omega oils, some cheeses, and yes, carbs in the form of potatoes, rice or sometimes pasta. If I want to cook meat or fish I can, but I'm on my own there as my wife won't touch any. It's just a hassle most evenings cooking animal protein separately, so I only really do that on weekends. Our weight is stable and our doctor check-ups come back looking good, so I'm not too worried.

 

But that said, I've done keto vegetarian meals, so it's definitely possible. Use halloumi (we wash out the brine as much as possible, as I also try to stay low-salt), tempeh, seitan, tofu (I think the paranoia over tofu is exaggerated, but to each his/her own). It's just rather pricey doing that, and IMO can get a little monotonous (keto fanatics may say 'so what?').

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16 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Eat less, move more works for me. I haven't been moving much over these winter months but I'm not gaining either. Never was a sweets fan. I just don't think it has to be so complicated. We all know what we put in our mouths and how much we move.

 

Eat less is always going to be the best advice but that in itself can be misleading, eat less of what?

 

If people don't understand what they are eating how do they cut back and what do they cut back,  there just isn't the correct information out there for people who want or need to do this.

 

21 hours ago, NativeFraulein said:

I haven't heard much about Keto here in Germany, and I am sort of assuming that it might never catch on because...brötchen.

 

Like anything food related in Germany it always takes time to filter through and given the way the Germans' value their food it may never catch on.

 

17 hours ago, jeremytwo said:

I'm attempting to move more with Nordic skiing.

 

I thought that was why you got a dog was to get out more, perhaps you should of got a bigger one.

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12 minutes ago, Sir Percy B said:

Eat less is always going to be the best advice but that in itself can be misleading, eat less of what?

 

Simply watching portion sizes and not going back for seconds works for me. I also don't eat dessert - only on special occasions.

 

I splashed out on our anniversary and ordered and Irish entrcote with a big baked potato. Ate half of the potato. When I watch my portions for a while, I get full much easier. My stomach shrinks. I also chew a lot and eat slowly, usually.

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17 hours ago, Auntie Helen said:

This is what we should all do. However, the massive and constant hunger that some of us have, plus not feeling full even when we have eaten much more than we needed, means ‘eat less, move more’ is a willpower thing. And willpower, for the rest of your life, is very hard.

 

For me, with my genes/insulin resistance, eating a Keto diet (under 40g net carbs per day) means I am not hungry. When my colleague at work offers me a twix I can easily say no. I am not hungry. When eating a usual carb diet, despite having had breakfast I am ravenous by 11am so say yes. With Keto I eat no breakfast but am not hungry at 11am so can say no.

 

This is a huge difference for lots of people who follow the Keto way of eating and it is why we get a bit evangelistic about it. For the first time in my life I am not constantly hungry. It is such an amazing feeling of freedom! Even if I didn’t lose weight on it, it would still be something I would like to stick at as it means I can be so much more relaxed about meal times, about refuelling on long cycle rides and more.

 

Lots of other people have natural appetites and feel full and stop eating when they have enough. They don’t need to consider Keto, unless they want the other benefits. But lots of us aren’t like this, and will power (when being bombarded with adverts) is a finite resource!

 

I relate to this a lot. I am going out of my way to not google what Keto actually is, as I don't want to follow a specific diet, but a lot of what you have said resonates with me.

 

Me and my wife will sit down to dinner and once she is full then she will stop eating, regardless of whether or not there is anything left on the plate. I cannot do this. I will eat until my plate is empty and then I will still be hungry. Always.

 

My only solution to this seems to be not starting to eat in the first place. I can go all day without eating, no problem, but once I start eating then that's eat. I wanna eat all day long. So I don't eat breakfast. Easy, I don't need it. I keep being told that this is unhealthy, but I don't know what else to do. If I have a breakfast then that's it, it kick starts me and I'll be hungry all day.

 

I then have just a soup or small salad at lunch. I don't really need it, but I figure I should probably have at least something. These small portions do not seem to trigger hunger pangs for me. So I remain fine throughout the day. I normally have a piece or two of fruit throughout the day too.

 

I have been doing this for many years now and it seems to work for me. But the real test comes at dinnertime. I could eat and eat and eat in the evenings. And I love, bread, cheese, pastries, crisps etc. No sweet tooth but carbs and fat and my thing. So I would have a meat, carbs and veggie dinner (heavy on the carbs, loads of em'). Then I would have a sandwich as a snack later on. This is where I have had to change.

 

So now, dinner for us will be either meat and veg or carbs and veg. But the veg part will always be the biggest part. For example, I used to happily eat a portion of spag bol that was probably 250g of pasta and 250g of meat. But now it'll be a 125g portion of pasta with just a shit load of veggies. We have a lot of side salads too. It's been working well for me for about a year now and it still feels good. My hunger pangs have gone down (although not disappeared) and I've cut out a lot of meat, carbs and fat.

 

Apart from just making big portions of veggies and salad, I add a lot of hot sauce on to food. It helps to slow me down and gives meals the kick I need to get the most out of it.

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What age are you? If your parents lived through the war then it was clean your plate or die while you were growing up. Childhood reinforcement is hard to throw off

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2 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

What age are you? If your parents lived through the war then it was clean your plate or die while you were growing up. Childhood reinforcement is hard to throw off

 

We had a clean your plate or die policy and it had nothing to do with the war. My older sister has had eating problems ever since. It's a wonder it didn't affect all of us in that way. 

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I'm just not as slim as I could be... but I am happy coz I like my food!

 

I'm still hilariously funny if I am Skinny or not!

 

One things for sure, I wont die healthy !!

 

Fuck it.. 

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I've been doing low-carb for a few years now and when I stick to it I feel a lot better. If I really stick to it I almost completely lose my appetite. Like the poster above stated, someone could shove a Twix bar under my nose and I'd just sneeze and say no thanks. If I ate the Twix bar I'd start craving more carbs almost immediately and would spend another three days getting my appetite gone again. There's some times that it's almost impossible to say no to carbs, but I try my damnedest.  It's mot a fad for me, it's a way of life I like to follow.  Bread and potatoes sure taste good but a half hour later I feel terrible and it's not guilt either, my body just doesn't handle it all that well. 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

Simply watching portion sizes and not going back for seconds works for me. I also don't eat dessert - only on special occasions.

 

But that's not necessarily the answer for someone that has a problem with blood sugar levels, cutting the portion size may not make any difference at all.

 

What I would like to see is more information relating to Carbohydrates, the low and high Glycemix Index (GI) and Glycemix load (GL) values of foods and a better understanding of simple carbs vs complex carbs in the labelling of food stuff.

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7 minutes ago, Sir Percy B said:

But that's not necessarily the answer for someone that has a problem with blood sugar levels, cutting the portion size may not make any difference at all.

 

I was only referring to myself. Those with special dietary needs are probably well-schooled about what works for them.

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Food and nutrition is something I've studied over the past 25 years or so and do me best to stay on.  As a child I was heavy and at one point I was around 124kg.  Today, I am a tidy 79-80kg and keep it there.  Perhaps a wee thin for a 188cm frame, but am happy and energy levels are good.

Nutrition is different for everyone for a number of reason, but the differences tend to be minimal amongst the majority of the population.  There are some who differ to a large decree, of course.  Where most of us fail is the evenings.  We eat more than is necessary.  Food is our fuel.  We need it in the morning to give us energy for the first part of the day and then again to get us through the rest of the day.  Then, we are home at night, doing only a little (some perhaps more) and we fill our tank.  This is the biggest mistake we make.  Dieting at night is not easy for most of us, yet can have the largest impact on weight loss or weight management.  A large number of people will eat, at a minimum a few carbs and maybe some fat.  Perhaps meat.  This energy boost is really unnecessary during the evenings.

We also don't eat enough good fats.  This has a good impact on more than a waist line.  Guys, eating nuts, helps our nuts. :lol:

One website that I know specifically has helped a number of people is MyFitnessPal.  There is an app as well.  Everything you eat and drink is documented and you can see the results.  Tinned foods, packaged foods, fruit, veg, meats, fast food, etc., is in the database.  If it is not there, you are free to add it in yourself.  It gives you a means to track what is going into your body each day.  Not merely protein, carbs and fats. Other nutrients as well.

I tried the paleo diet a couple of years ago for about 8-9 months.  I actually liked it.  It wasn't difficult for me as I already eat very little carbs short of veg.  I'll generally eat about 200-300 gr of spinach at lunch.

As with most things we do in life, learning is what makes us better at it.  We don't really learn much about nutrition and food in school, unless that is your field of study in uni. 

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17 minutes ago, BayrischDude said:

One website that I know specifically has helped a number of people is MyFitnessPal.  There is an app as well.  Everything you eat and drink is documented and you can see the results.  Tinned foods, packaged foods, fruit, veg, meats, fast food, etc., is in the database.  If it is not there, you are free to add it in yourself.  It gives you a means to track what is going into your body each day.  Not merely protein, carbs and fats. Other nutrients as well.

 

I maintain that it just doesn't have to be this complicated.

 

I've been reading a lot lately that, lo and behold, breakfast is not the most important meal of the day.

 

Not eating too heavy in the evening and not eating after 19:00 are simple rules to follow. As you said, nuts are good. If I get hungry in the evening, I just have a small portion of almonds or pistachios. 

 

In this day and age, how can one not know that processed foods are bad? Everywhere I go, people are pointing out that they only eat fresh foods. Duh!

 

Of course, indulging once in a while is perfectly fine.

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One of my nieces and one of my nephews are on keto and have lost a lot of weight and kept it off.  I don't think I could do it myself.  I am a lover of sweets and junk food.  I cut sweets at some point in the past and life just wasn't the same.

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On 10.2.2019, 19:15:52, jeremytwo said:

 

I may have read this somewhere but doesn't that ethnic group have a predisposition to those issues? I do know for sure that the Asian community in the UK have issues with it.

Yes a lot of Native people are Insulin Resistant and carry weight specifically in the most dangerous part of the body which is the belly.  I am not sure if this was always a problem but the introduction of government food 'comodities' aka boxes of food that were mainly canned and/or refined carbohydrates contributed to this greatly. As did alochol and the Frybread culture---frybread being the worst food possible for some who is Insulin Resistant. 

 

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From what I've read, frybread  (very similar to Bavarian Auszogene btw) is one of the historical results of Native people trying to make edible food out the then unfamiliar government rations of flour, lard/shortening, sugar etc. , especially on reservations.

 

I have a medical background, and yes, insulin resistance is pretty common in various populations of the world. It is a major issue in Polynesians, in addition to some Asians.

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Yes, all of these fried (sometimes sweet) breads (Krapfen, too!) are kind of related.

I've even wondered if Native frybread maybe had a German influence with all the immigrants around. :)

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On 2/11/2019, 8:03:13, LeonG said:

One of my nieces and one of my nephews are on keto and have lost a lot of weight and kept it off.  I don't think I could do it myself.  I am a lover of sweets and junk food.  I cut sweets at some point in the past and life just wasn't the same.

 

I think we evolved to stuff ourselves around the pagan festival of Saturnalia which the Catholic Church kind of turned into Christmas. There was a reason we ate and ate - to get fat around the tummy to keep warm. This is why imho Christmas is a bugger for dieters, we have lost our connection to natural cycles. 

 

Now after Christmas came the long dreary months to Easter. Easter is a significant event because it represents the rebirth of the year. Gardening traditionally starts at Easter (Ostre). Now just before Easter is the fast time of Lent. Starting with eating high carb crap like Krapfen here or pancakes in the UK, we stocked up for the fasting time. A lot of people died at this time of year before refrigeration because there was no food. 

 

If you fast properly you lose weight but the downside is you get bloody cold easily. I remember that when I lost 10kg I was bloody freezing. So there is a seasonal element to this.

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