IT career "golden cage"

38 posts in this topic

To be fair, I don't think calling women "dear" or posting misogynist videos, etc. is an attempt to have sex with anyone. How could it be? We women are just Not That Stupid. Besides, he's in Holzkirchen or thereabouts.

 

If he needs sex, he has a wife. 

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2 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

If he needs sex, he has a wife. 

 

 

But even she doesnt like his drinking and general attitude...  Apparently.. :ph34r:

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In a marriage, one gets what one needs unless one is too chickenshit to ask for it. That goes for men and women.

 

Back on topic, I wonder how IT people handle these issues. B)

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20 hours ago, olessko said:

What would you do in such situation? Keep on jobhunting? Or just stay put and perhaps try starting a small but interesting & challenging business as a side gig?

 

What is important to you?

 

If its cash then obviously stay.  If you care more about other things like interesting projects you can move.

 

37 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

I wonder how IT people handle these issues. 

 

Too much money and not enough fun?  We take a more rewarding role that still pays more than we need, even if less than the max possible.

 

Some people have real problems, 100k and bored isnt a real problem. 

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1 hour ago, fraufruit said:

To be fair, I don't think calling women "dear" or posting misogynist videos, etc. is an attempt to have sex with anyone. How could it be? We women are just Not That Stupid. Besides, he's in Holzkirchen or thereabouts.

 

 

Ah, FF, this guy gets off on being condescending to us and treating us as stupid. His self esteem is that low.

 

'nuff said!

 

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@olessko: are you mobile? Finding a >€100k IT job in Berlin is hard. In Munich or Frankfurt this is easier. My advice is to stay foot, get some qualifications like Scrum Master and then continue the job hunt.

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On 10.2.2019, 21:04:46, LukeSkywalker said:

Finding a >€100k IT job in Berlin is hard. In Munich or Frankfurt this is easier.

 

But cost of living is higher, so all in they may as well stay in berlin even if they have to scrimp and save to get by on 5 or 6k a month.

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On 2/10/2019, 7:18:42, fraufruit said:

If he needs sex, he has a wife. 

 

That's the problem.

 

On 2/10/2019, 9:04:46, LukeSkywalker said:

Finding a >€100k IT job in Berlin is hard. In Munich or Frankfurt this is easier. 

 

This is only partially true.  Yes, getting a >100K job in Berlin is not easy, but it is not impossible nowadays.  And getting a 90K-99K job is actually very much doable nowadays provided you have the correct skills.  Things have improved a lot in the past couple of years in Berlin's IT and I think they will get even better.

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Also, as the poster notes, flexible working is much more of an option, anyway.     Against that, I`d say some of the modern Berlin life depends on how you want to live.   There`s very much a set of districts where you can burn through your money just as fast now as in the western cities,and making sure you are hang out in the "right places".   I would also say a lot of people coming to Germany now self-select into that.  The person coming for 90k wants the 90k life and scene, not to be Ms Average Berliner.   However, if that is still you and / or you just want a break, Berlin remains a good choice for time out to build a cheaper home, study, set up location-independent etc etc.   It is what I did on my most recent transition.

 

There would also be less popular parts of Frankfurt that applies to as well.    Times are changing there too but until recently a lot of that was a relative bargain in global terms and there was a lot of choice.  But most people only see Westend, Sachsenhausen et al, and these days the Bahnhofsviertel.     Munich is a different kettle of fish. I think.  As an article I read yesterday noted, those two often get lumped together but the first remains 35%+ more expensive - substantial in things like housing.

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13 minutes ago, swimmer said:

Also, as the poster notes, flexible working is much more of an option, anyway.     Against that, I`d say some of the modern Berlin life depends on how you want to live.   There`s very much a set of districts where you can burn through your money just as fast now as in the western cities,and making sure you are hang out in the "right places".   I would also say a lot of people coming to Germany now self-select into that.  The person coming for 90k wants the 90k life and scene, not to be Ms Average Berliner.   However, if that is still you and / or you just want a break, Berlin remains a good choice for time out to build a cheaper home, study, set up location-independent etc etc.   It is what I did on my most recent transition.

 

There would also be less popular parts of Frankfurt that applies to as well.    Times are changing there too but until recently a lot of that was a relative bargain in global terms and there was a lot of choice.  But most people only see Westend, Sachsenhausen et al, and these days the Bahnhofsviertel.     Munich is a different kettle of fish. I think.  As an article I read yesterday noted, those two often get lumped together but the first remains 35%+ more expensive - substantial in things like housing.

 

I think you are pretty much disconnected with the city you live in.  Nothing wrong with it.  But reality is that the the "average" Berlin "expat" newcomer has it very hard nowadays.  They all insist in living in the same 5 districts and the rent prices skyrocketed long time ago.  Nowadays you pay 500-700 EUR for a ROOM in those districts and in most cases you can't even do Anmeldung.   So those people are paying for their apartments more for rent than the 90K IT guy living in Dahlem.    The mortgage from my house with garden is much more cheaper than renting a 1 bedroom apartment in Kreuzberg.

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Yes, the price of 2019 housing has a big impact on all groups and especially the new arrivals who want a certain lifestyle.  And what the married family guys also tend to forget is that, for the single childfree, that impressive-sounding 6-7k turns into a less enticing 3-3.5k net.

 

That place I built is in one of the cheap, empty locales.   The typical 60 sq m places start at about 900 Euro cold now.   The family-sized ones are getting close to 2k warm. 15 Euro per sq m cold in a no name district, and 20 in its good bit, so god knows central rates now.   The new studio apartments going up next door are 260k, and the bigger ones at least 500k.  And so on.  These are big numbers and not affordable to the 90k a year IT guy or girl any more either even in a no-name place.   

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23 hours ago, swimmer said:

The person coming for 90k wants the 90k life and scene, not to be Ms Average Berliner.   

For me it's actually a strong motivator to leave Berlin in the very near future. It makes no point earning a lot but still not being able to choose a good kindergarten or a a good paediatrician for a child. I am sick and tired of all the waiting lists and 2 minute long doctor appointments where everyone is treated equally (as shit). Berlin might be a good place for singles, but decent family life easier to arrange somewhere else. 

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That population does get squeezed by the forces of gentrification often.   Easy to say, and I have just dissed the place as increasingly pricy too, but have you considered moving to one of the outer burbs where far fewer of us live and most of us are older and so there is nothing like the competition for what the younger middle class corporate cohort wants?   Places with Kitas on practically every corner, and good Gymnasiums and good medical services and nature and space.     I increasingly meet more young familied English speakers in the south east (Treptow-Köpenick etc).   It runs in German and your background is not clear but obviously there is a decent east European presence there, although not so many people of colour. 

 

That logically is how many people have to do it now.  Be the first mover, settler, early adopter.  Find an opportunity and grab it.   Then people follow you :lol:.   Building a home life is an investment, perhaps increasingly as prices rise and employment gets less secure etc.   I don`t mind having time out to set up (build, renovate) a property and establishing a new family base or do education and such on career break because it will payback, and I can return to employment later with a totally settled life.  Compartmentalising can be underrated.

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41 minutes ago, olessko said:

For me it's actually a strong motivator to leave Berlin in the very near future. It makes no point earning a lot but still not being able to choose a good kindergarten or a a good paediatrician for a child. I am sick and tired of all the waiting lists and 2 minute long doctor appointments where everyone is treated equally (as shit). Berlin might be a good place for singles, but decent family life easier to arrange somewhere else. 

 

That has not been our experience.   We found first a Tagesmutter literally in from of our house where both our kids stayed until they were 3 years old, then we moved them to a German-English kindergarten recommended by a fellow TTer and it was almost totally painless.   Yes, there is some stress making applications because of the way they are done, it is not centralized so everyone applies in 10 places creating those dumb waiting lists.   But when the time comes most people in those waiting lists already found places somewhere else.   Our kids go now to a public German-English primary school and we couldn't be happier.

 

And our pediatrician is wonderful, caring and accommodating, I have zero complains about him.

 

Maybe the real problem as a high earner who was raised somewhere else and you've been not enough here is that you expect better treatment that the average person because of your economic power.   Or you've been really unlucky.

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2 hours ago, olessko said:

I am sick and tired of all the waiting lists and 2 minute long doctor appointments where everyone is treated equally

Find a country where you can bribe your way to the front if that's your thing. I'm sure you know of one.

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1 hour ago, deadsoul said:

Find a country where you can bribe your way to the front if that's your thing. I'm sure you know of one.

 

The uk is the easiest from here.  Get bupa for a few hundred a year, job done.

 

Or, as Im writing this, in germany private health insurance also allows certain types a queue jumping and better service, so there is no need to relocate.

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@olessko I found myself in the same boat a little more than a year ago, but I live in the south of Germany and for a German MNC Giant. I essentially slowly offloaded all my responsibilities off  to my colleagues, and focused on specific skills I wanted to develop and practice. And, that left me with a lot of free time time at work, which I then used for checking out some alternate domains and emerging tech, as well trying out some new roles, and communication styles. I also got a lot of time to read more, plan things outside work, thereby meeting more people, traveled a lot more, spend more time with my family around the world combining it with remote work.

Maybe there are some improvements(communication,management-style...) that you wanna try out without getting worried about pissing people off or risking your career in the company. Another option is to, get certified in something new, a Scrum Master or so would almost definitely not give you a pay-raise, but might open up some new doors to transition in to something else, or round your profile up. I did consider getting a master specialization on the side, but the compatibility with the German system made it kinda difficult for me.

 

If you extend your search to the south, especially in the IT divisions of the Automotive Companies, they would have some jobs in whatever niche experience you bring to. Depending on how you fit in to their Vision/Org-setup you would be able to keep your current salary. Chances are, unless you are in to Big-Data/AI/Machine-Vision(or any of the Innovative areas), you wouldn't be able to higher offer, and you might lose some flexibility. But, on the plus side, the are more chances to develop your career further ahead, or take up well defined roles in a structured organization. These may or may not be what you might be excited about now, it is still worth its value in the German career market, especially in these big companies with all their processes and internal politics.

There are also Inno-tech firms that let you work remotely, and match your current pay grade with a different workstyle and organizational structure, that you might be interested in.

 

Finally relax a bit, use the time to figure out what you want, and sometimes going "up" would require stepping down(could be salary, perks,Job-title,other expectations..) a bit so that newer ways of going up opens up.  I remember telling myself, that once the boredom, monotony and bad feeling get too difficult for me to bear with, I would find some internal motivation to get myself out of the "cage".

 

PS: In my case, i looked around inside the larger Organization(read Central), attended a few interviews, and one of them lead me to a yet-to-be-open position, where will I take up more responsibility, have higher visibility and report higher-up than now, albeit without a pay raise. I am starting next month, but am looking forward to this change, and a fresh start :) 

 

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