taxation of own-generated solar electricity

156 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

If you are cheap, you don't drive Tesla, you drive a cheap benzin car.

And if you are green you drive very little, ride the bicycle instead.

 

Or a cheaper EV car.

We could not possibly do all of our shopping and errands day trips and evenings out on a bicycle. (year round.)

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Yes of course, with EV batteries will be exploited at least. I can't say they are financially worthwhile without looking at simulation. I'd say I'm skeptical...

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Ok I agree.

But today, extremely few people are in a scenario such that batteries are a good choice.

 

I hope to change my cheap old crappy benzin car in 10 or 20 yr from now. Yes, next one will be EV, if age still let me drive.🙂

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7 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Or a cheaper EV car.

We could not possibly do all of our shopping and errands day trips and evenings out on a bicycle. (year round.)

 

Do cheap EV exist already?

A cheap car for me is under 10k€ purchase, and under 100€/month everything included (everything means everything).

 

I'm a bicycle fanatic. But yes, I accept that bicycle is not always the right choice. And for some people is (almost) never the right choice.😥

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My 25min commute by car takes 90min by public transportation and around 60min by bycicle.

 

Then Mondays are much more complicated, as I do multiple trips and instead of driving 95 minutes through Munich, I would cycle for 240 minutes or more.

Cycling is simply something incompatible with my commute.

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1 hour ago, Gambatte said:

We built our small house in 2019. We decided at the time to heat with gas, not with Wärmepumpe, because it was cheaper. I have been regretting it ever since. We also installed a large PV, happy about it. I have been gathering data from our PV every day: financially it will pay off and generate a small profit. Do not install a battery, zillions of cunny vendors will tell you otherwise but batteries are a very expensive way to damage the environment.

You trust cunny vendors or you trust me? Take this: if they convince you, they make a fat profit. If I convince you, I win nothing. Your take.

 

 

Good luck with housing. 

 

OK but I did not get. I get rid of the Oil Heater what I will need ? PV only is enough ? then I guess I will heave an huge electric heater in the keller. Or is more convenient to ad to the PV also an heater pump ?

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23 minutes ago, fraufruit said:
2 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

My 25min commute by car takes 90min by public transportation and around 60min by bycicle.

 

Then Mondays are much more complicated, as I do multiple trips and instead of driving 95 minutes through Munich, I would cycle for 240 minutes or more.

Cycling is simply something incompatible with my commute.

 

@MikeMelga

Absolutely agree bycicle commute unfortunately not always the choice. My commute is a flat pleasant 6km with modest traffic.

But based on the people I know directly, when I was told "I'd love cycling commute, but unfortunately it's just not feasible", that was not true at least 90% of the times. 

I don't think people should be forced. But I also find irritating to hear "I'd love to but I just can't" when it's not true.

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12 minutes ago, Frantic said:

PV only is enough ? 

 

No, PV only is by far not enough.

 

You need for certain either gas boiler, or Wärmepumpe, WP.

 

WP themselves are cheap to buy. Most of the cost is the labor for installation. Tere are a few types of WP: those that cost more to install are cheaper / greener to run, and viceversa.

I guess 20-35k€ for WP.

And disposing the oil system on top, of course, I guess 5-10 k€.

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15 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

But based on the people I know directly, when I was told "I'd love cycling commute, but unfortunately it's just not feasible", that was not true at least 90% of the times. 

I don't think people should be forced. But I also find irritating to hear "I'd love to but I just can't" when it's not true.

 

I live near the stadium, my son's school is in Leopoldstrasse, my company is in Trudering, my wife's company is in Planegg and my son's Portuguese classes are in Giesing... Even if I had the school at the doorstep, me and my wife work on completely opposite sides of Munich.

I actually used public transport for the first 2 years, because the kindergarten was on the way to work, but as soon as we changed kindergarten, 2 cars became mandatory...

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11 minutes ago, Gambatte said:

 

No, PV only is by far not enough.

 

You need for certain either gas boiler, or Wärmepumpe, WP.

 

WP themselves are cheap to buy. Most of the cost is the labor for installation. Tere are a few types of WP: those that cost more to install are cheaper / greener to run, and viceversa.

I guess 20-35k€ for WP.

And disposing the oil system on top, of course, I guess 5-10 k€.

 

So PV + WP + Disposing Oil system, we are talking about 35k - 55k €.  And a 12 KWp PV implant will be enough for providing electricity to home and to the WP ? 

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3 hours ago, Frantic said:

And a 12 KWp PV implant will be enough for providing electricity to home and to the WP ? 

No, it won't.

In fact, it won't matter how big. No PV produces electricity at night.

Btw, 12kWp is too big. If your PV is less than 10kWp, your feed-in Tarif, in ct/kWh, will be much higher than otherwise (still modest tough, at approx 9ct/kWh). That's why all domestic PV I know of are under 10kWp. 

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3 hours ago, Frantic said:

So PV + WP + Disposing Oil system, we are talking about 35k - 55k €.  

That's my guess.

Stuff is not cheap.

Maybe there's some subsidy.

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Can across this article: https://www.mesh-energy.com/insights/thinking-about-installing-a-heat-pump-dont-forget-this-critical-service

 

"When you consider all of these items in a home they soon add up!

Electric cooking = 32A
Electric vehicle charging (7kW) = 32A
Heat pump and immersion (6kW) = 26A
Lights and power (all floors) = 40A"

 

This is a UK article discussing the problems of a single phase supply. Got me to thinking actually, what is the typical max capacity for a German house?

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On 28.3.2022, 22:50:42, Gambatte said:

 

@MikeMelga

Absolutely agree bycicle commute unfortunately not always the choice. My commute is a flat pleasant 6km with modest traffic.

But based on the people I know directly, when I was told "I'd love cycling commute, but unfortunately it's just not feasible", that was not true at least 90% of the times. 

I don't think people should be forced. But I also find irritating to hear "I'd love to but I just can't" when it's not true.

 

It's even worse than that. If I were to commute everyday to work (which I don't, even before Corona), it would be a 170 km round trip. Between home office and car sharing I've never driven more than 20,000 km in one year for the last 10 years, including weekends, vacations, etc. Not insignificant, but OK I think. I can think of three colleagues from the top of my head who also live in Munich, pratically never do home office and don't believe in car sharing.. I asked one of them recently how much he's paying for petrol nowadays: 600 €/month just for the commute :ph34r: The mind boggles. I pay around €150 - €200 in total, invest the rest and get more or less everything back from taxes anyway.

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On 29/04/2022, 14:09:46, mtbiking said:

I can think of three colleagues from the top of my head who also live in Munich, pratically never do home office and don't believe in car sharing.. I asked one of them recently how much he's paying for petrol nowadays: 600 €/month just for the commute :ph34r: The mind boggles. I pay around €150 - €200 in total, invest the rest and get more or less everything back from taxes anyway.

 

600 Euros / 20 working days = 30 Euros a day / 2 Euro a litre = 15L.

Typical car is measured in L/100Km with my old diesel doing 7.5L/100km. So that's a 200Km daily commute, 100Km into and 100Km out of Munich?

I think this figure is a little overplayed, or includes a lot of other 'running about' for private reasons.

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On 28/03/2022, 22:50:42, Gambatte said:

 

@MikeMelga

Absolutely agree bycicle commute unfortunately not always the choice. My commute is a flat pleasant 6km with modest traffic.

But based on the people I know directly, when I was told "I'd love cycling commute, but unfortunately it's just not feasible", that was not true at least 90% of the times. 

I don't think people should be forced. But I also find irritating to hear "I'd love to but I just can't" when it's not true.

 

Bicycle Pre-requisite No. 1: Not driving in an out of car laden streets, i.e. separate cycle lane, forest path or the like, for most of the journey.

Bicycle Pre-requisite No. 2: Distance reasonable for my fitness level.

Bicycle Pre-requisite No. 3: It's not raining :D

 

Try one summer days when it's pleasant and you can enjoy the ride. Just doing it once proves to yourself it's not as hard as you think, or confirms this really sucks and will not work for me.

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40 minutes ago, scook17 said:

100Km into and 100Km out of Munich? I think this figure is a little overplayed

I believe these numbers, even though they are of course extreme. It's the tail of the distribution.

I had a colleague that used to commute 100 miles each way. Not making this up.

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5 hours ago, scook17 said:

 

600 Euros / 20 working days = 30 Euros a day / 2 Euro a litre = 15L.

Typical car is measured in L/100Km with my old diesel doing 7.5L/100km. So that's a 200Km daily commute, 100Km into and 100Km out of Munich?

I think this figure is a little overplayed, or includes a lot of other 'running about' for private reasons.


 

That’s the figure he told me. He drives an older BMW 330i. His commute is 170 km/day almost only highway and he probably does around 8.5l/100 km. 170*5*8.5/100*2 = 578 €/month with Benzin at 2€/l. It’s completely believable.

 

btw: we live in Munich and commute out of Munich :P 

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4 hours ago, Gambatte said:

I believe these numbers, even though they are of course extreme. It's the tail of the distribution.

I had a colleague that used to commute 100 miles each way. Not making this up.


thank you. You’ve seen on Strava the distance I cycle to work when I take the bike.. add 15 km as the autobahn is obviously not such a straight line as possible with the bike.

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1 hour ago, mtbiking said:


 

That’s the figure he told me. He drives an older BMW 330i. His commute is 170 km/day almost only highway and he probably does around 8.5l/100 km. 170*5*8.5/100*2 = 578 €/month with Benzin at 2€/l. It’s completely believable.

Does he know how much he would save per month with an EV? That would be around 130€ for an EV charged at home! Working 10 months per year, the savings just on fuel would be 4500€!

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