Verdi - terrorist union

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Verdi is taking innocent travelers hostage again. I´m fed up with them. Not only are their demands unreasonable (like pay hikes of 30%) but they are disrupting the lives of lots of people who have no say in the matter anyway. There should be laws against strikes in which groups with control over essential functions can inflict pain on so many people. At the very least they should have to announce strike action well in advance so that people can make alternative arrangements.

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1 minute ago, jeba said:

At the very least they should have to announce strike action well in advance so that people can make alternative arrangements.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

Sure... of course they should... 

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If you live in Greece, does it really affect you? Whilst unions now tend to do daft things and make outrageous demands you ought to remember why they came about. You also need to look what happens to people in countries with weak unions. Or in companies that do not allow union participation. Just look at the rise of the gig economy and zero hour contracts in the UK as well as the rise of 'self employed' contracts even though the majority of so called self employed people are subcontracted to only one company.

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I actually live in Cyprus - but you can´t choose that from TT´s drop down menu - but anyway. Of course it affects me since I like flying back to Germany to see friends and family. And of course, I do accept that unions have a legitimate role to play. But their actions should be in proportion and reasonable and not punish innocent bystanders. I´d support legislation restricting them from behaving like Verdi and the railroad unions.

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I understand about the railway union after the stupid demands made by the train drivers union a couple of years ago but Verdi is seen as weak, they haven't done a lot for low paid workers in the elderly care industry for example. Unfortunately if innocent bystanders are not affected than they are less likely to get what they want for their members. Really it's about preventing exploitation of the workforce by a minority. Look at some of the US States or again the UK or even look at what happened in Germany before the minimum wage was finally brought in.

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5 minutes ago, French bean said:

Really it's about preventing exploitation of the workforce by a minority.

When they demand a minimum pay of € 20.-/h for lowly qualified staff it´s obviously not about preventing exploitation but about blackmailing for the sake of maximising their pay at the expense of the general public who will pay the price via inflated ticket prices.

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Who would not want a 30% pay rise :blink:

 

I always find it strange how people object to good pay.  Perfectly OK for bosses and the already well-paid to get lots more, of course.  Just the person teaching your kids or driving your train who should not dare ask. And you.

 

20 Euro an hour is not big money here.  The average FT salary is 49k.  A lot of people do not get out of bed for that. You say on the other thread about flights, Cyprus incomes are low.  Economic base is different here.

 

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9 minutes ago, French bean said:

look at what happened in Germany before the minimum wage was finally brought in.

That´s a different kettle of fish. And minimum wage was one of the reasons why I my mother and I left Germany as minimum wage made it impossible to have private nurses for my elderly mother.

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4 minutes ago, swimmer said:

Just the person teaching your kids or driving your train who should not dare ask.

At least they shouldn´t dare ask me. Which they are doing through the backdoor of inflation. Salaries should rise along the lines of inflation plus increase of efficiency/productivity

.

 

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On the other thread though, you are complaining about not having much money. 

 

It is really very odd how it is the poorer who so often object the most to the idea of decent pay.   Not really sure why they choose to spend their one and only life deliberately depriving themselves (and their families) of the right reward for their work -  and enriching other people instead on top.  Why on earth do they do this?  

 

While you complain about your meagre widow`s pension and struggle to find an airfare, your husband`s former bosses and any shareholders and their families won`t be going without.  They will have done well from his work.    Sure, accept that personally but a very large number of workers won`t making the same choice for their families.

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28 minutes ago, swimmer said:

On the other thread though, you are complaining about not having much money. 

 

It is really very odd how it is the poorer who so often object the most to the idea of decent pay.   Not really sure why they choose to spend their one and only life deliberately depriving themselves (and their families) of the right reward for their work -  and enriching other people instead on top.  Why on earth do they do this?  

Because poor people sometimes realize that nonsense salaries will hurt them in the long run. Salaries must be sustainable. Increasing them by decree can have serious long term effects. Higher salaries are great if you have a safe job, but crap if you are looking for one.

 

And I completely hate the term "decent pay". When you appeal for "decency", it means you are out of arguments.

 

Disclaimer: I come from Portugal, where politicians have completely distorted the market reality, which lead to abberrations like:

- public service teachers earning much more than engineers, working only 28h per week, vs 40h for engineers. Many other examples like that.

- minimum wage very close to average wage, i.e. minimum wage was raised, but the rest of the economy not. So you have cases where engineers are earning not much more than minimum wage.

- Unskilled people's paradise! Why study?

- unemployment subsidy very close to the real wage. Why work?

- subsequent minimum wage raises lead to more people receiving minimum wage (lower compression). Then unions complained that it was really bad economy because the number of people with minimum wage increased. Doh!!

 

 

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But when I was in the UK, I changed from being a contracts manager in a SME to driving a lorry because it not only paid more but once I took into the account the benefits of company car, fuel allowance, private health, I was still better off driving a truck. I also had health benefits - no stress, no 12 hour days without reward, no phone calls at 9 in the evening or on a Sunday morning. It's called market forces. Managers, especially shit ones are 2 a penny in the UK, drivers are like hens teeth and getting rarer but the biggest insult is the number of people with no skill, do not produce wealth like engineers do and make a shed load of money without actually earning it. I'm think bankers and fund managers in particular.

1 hour ago, jeba said:

That´s a different kettle of fish. And minimum wage was one of the reasons why I my mother and I left Germany as minimum wage made it impossible to have private nurses for my elderly mother.

 So it's alright for a carer to look after an elderly person, make potentially life threatening decisions (should the person go or not go to hospital) have to do a minimum 1 year Ausbildung and work weekends, shift work, nights for shit money which in no way reflects the skill and responsibility these people have because people don't want to pay a living wage.

 

Sorry matey but you accept a plumber or a garage  bill so why are carers any different? Why should they not be paid for the skill and knowledge they have?

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4 hours ago, swimmer said:

On the other thread though, you are complaining about not having much money. 

I didn´t complain - I just pointed out that my pension is far from comfortable. I´m not poor though.

 

4 hours ago, swimmer said:

It is really very odd how it is the poorer who so often object the most to the idea of decent pay.   Not really sure why they choose to spend their one and only life deliberately depriving themselves (and their families) of the right reward for their work -  and enriching other people instead on top. 

There is a difference between decent pay and € 20.-/h for someone with almost no qualification and a comfortable job in airconditioned terminals. We´re not talking miners or construction workers here. Plus I haven´t worked too much as I retired aged 38 (when I took parental leave never to return to work as my wife had died). So I didn´t enrich any bosses  too much (and when I did I earned quite decently).

 

4 hours ago, swimmer said:

While you complain about your meagre widow`s pension and struggle to find an airfare,

Don´t put words into my mouth. As I said I neither complained nor have I been struggling to find an airfare (last flight to Cyprus was about € 80.-) What I´m complaining about is that for fear of being affected by strike action I had to travel to Basel to fly from there. And about the disregard of unions like Verdi for the problems they may cause to innocent bystanders. E. g. when I was traveling with my 88 year old wheelchair-bound and moribund mom (she died 4 weeks later) who was already incontinent and had to rely on that her diapers lastet until arrival as toilets in airplanes are too small for a second person to assist her it would have been sort of torture for her had her travel time been expanded beyond the time the diapers lastet.

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So what gives you the right to call "Verdi" a "Terrorist Union"?

 

It seems they are trying to protect the vulnerable...

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4 hours ago, French bean said:

 So it's alright for a carer to look after an elderly person, make potentially life threatening decisions (should the person go or not go to hospital) have to do a minimum 1 year Ausbildung and work weekends, shift work, nights for shit money which in no way reflects the skill and responsibility these people have because people don't want to pay a living wage.

 

Sorry matey but you accept a plumber or a garage  bill so why are carers any different? Why should they not be paid for the skill and knowledge they have?

My wife´s grandfather was looked after by two Polish inhouse carers who took turns every 6 weeks for € 600 / month plus free housing plus travel expenses. This was a win-win situation as in Poland € 600.- was good money (more than their hunsband made) and the old guy because he could stay at home instead of going into a nursing home. Do you think he could have afforded that in times of minimum wage and Arbeitszeitgesetz? Today, unless you´re very wealthy) you´d either have to go to an old age / nursing home or move to a country like Cyprus. Here you get permission to employ a live-in domestic worker/carer (usually from countries like the Philippines, Nepal etc) for about € 500/month once you make it to 75 or have a medical certification that you´re in need of domestic help.That´s a big part of the reason I moved here with my mother.

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5 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

So what gives you the right to call "Verdi" a "Terrorist Union"?

 

It seems they are trying to protect the vulnerable...

Because they are terrorising innocent travelers.

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6 minutes ago, jeba said:

Don´t put words into my mouth.

 

I didn`t.  You referenced managing on your widow`s pension, and said would have to go to the bank to afford a non-budget flight. 

 

That`s just the point.    So many people who complain about having to go to the bank to afford one standard plane flight rejoice in the idea of low pay.   Never fails to surprise me.   But it is no surprise to me that huge numbers do want a bit more than that and won`t let others take the fruits of their labour.

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11 minutes ago, swimmer said:

 

I didn`t.  You referenced managing on your widow`s pension, and said would have to go to the bank to afford a non-budget flight. 

 

That`s just the point.    So many people who complain about having to go to the bank to afford one standard plane flight rejoice in the idea of low pay.   Never fails to surprise me.   But it is no surprise to me that huge numbers do want a bit more than that and won`t let others take the fruits of their labour.

You did. I never complained nor did I say I´d have to go to the bank to afford a flight. I merely used a figure of speech which meant I´d have to check my account balance before deciding whether or not to buy something.

 

11 minutes ago, swimmer said:

 But it is no surprise to me that huge numbers do want a bit more than that and won`t let others take the fruits of their labour.

But it seems to be a surprise to you that other´s don´t want to fund that desire beyond what´s reasonable?

 

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Well, a strike that doesn't affect anyone is useless. Most people don't strike lightly as they then don't get paid. I lost around ~1200 Euros last year due to being on strike and while I am not poor, this is not the kind of sum I can ignore. But I decided it was worth the long term gain (whether I am right or not I won't know until 20 years later, as the strike was about pensions).

 

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8 minutes ago, Marianne013 said:

Well, a strike that doesn't affect anyone is useless.

 

 

Indeed, but ideally it should affect the employer but not the public. 

 

On 7.2.2019, 08:22:46, jeba said:

At the very least they should have to announce strike action well in advance so that people can make alternative arrangements

 

This would be a perfect solution.  Their employer loses business, which is the purpose of the strike, the public are aware of the dispute and are allowed to deal with it, meaning they are much more likely to be sympathetic and noone suffers unduly.

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