Rent to Rent

31 posts in this topic

Hi guys, in the UK, many guys have so-called easy get rich schemes in which they do the rent-to-rent thing.

What is it? You agree with a landlord to rent a flat but re-rent it to other people. Mostly, they convert a living room into a bedroom so more people fit into the house and ask more rent, making a steady passive income.

 

I was wondering if people in Germany (big cities like Munich or Berlin) do this as well and if this is even possible/risky?

Thanks!

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I have a sleeping sofa in the living room which can accomodate two people. I could also put two bunk beds in my bedroom, so that's four more people. In the kitchen I can lay down a mattress for one person. Is that what you mean?

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Sure it's possible but it's illegal and risky. 

 

Illegal because if found out, the landlord can kick you / your tenants out of the apartment without notice. 

 

Risky because if the former happens, your tenants will find themselves homeless because of your actions and they have a financial claim against you to pay for their costs to find a new apartment, stay in a hotel until they do, storage for their belongings, moving costs etc.

 

Also risky because if your tenants don't pay or they damage the apartment, you will be on the hook to pay for it.

 

Now, this is just talking about renting month to month to regular tenants.  If you change the apartment into a boarding house by adding as many beds as possible to increase your profits and possibly renting it out to work crews by the week, your profit margin is better but however, you are running a business which can get you in all kinds of trouble with the authorities as I don't assume you will be registering your business or paying tax of your income.  Also you will be running it in a non-business zone.  Added, it's still not allowed by your landlord and if caught, your landlord could sue you for your estimated profits.

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It goes on a lot but it is often the marginalised shadow world (illegal migration, modern slavery etc).   That is the company you keep.

 

Individuals have to be properly registered here (not only an address but including for services like healthcare).   That alone makes it far less attractive here.    Housing operations are quite formalised (often involving all residents, and quite often the state) and transparent and paid for in full ongoing (so managing agents  and neighbours will notice overcrowding and the latter also have no intention of subsiding it in their monthly service charges).   Our sinking fund charges 100 Euro for every rental change in my block, as well, what with all the costs of such a change - easy barrier.    And so on.

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Even if it was legal it's immoral. I'm a bit puzzled that's not been mentioned yet.

Glad to find that law and ethics sometimes are on the same wavelength.

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It is legal provided your landlord gives permission and general standards are kept. I remember having rented from the son of a developer who rented his flats to him so he could sublet them. Must have had some tax reasons I guess.

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5 hours ago, Gambatte said:

Even if it was legal it's immoral. I'm a bit puzzled that's not been mentioned yet.

Glad to find that law and ethics sometimes are on the same wavelength.

Why would you say that it's immoral? I have previously had colleagues who were extremely well paid but chose to rent a bed in a shared room in a shared flat because they were travelling with work for 200+ days per year, and when they were 'home' only wanted a place to sleep and leave some things. I agree that there are good arguments to be made that strict controls on subletting reduce the risk of exploitation (I personally support Germany's relatively restrictive stance on property usage and zoning), there are people who want those arrangements for a variety of reasons. 

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You have to ask the landlord if your scheme is allowed. I don't think many will allow it.  Those who would would probably want a piece of the action. More wear and tear on the apartment. We sure wouldn't allow it.  We like to know who is living in our property and the neighbors wouldn't like all sorts coming and going.

 

What about their mail? How many names can you put on a post box?

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2 hours ago, Auswanderer said:

Why would you say that it's immoral?

 

I think Gambatte was referring to the fly-by-night sort of arrangements OP seems to have had in mind.

 

A sort of Zweck-WG for frequent business travellers is kind of different, and yea, common enough. But the landlords know upfront what's going on.

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6 minutes ago, alderhill said:

 

I think Gambatte was referring to the fly-by-night sort of arrangements OP seems to have had in mind.

 

A sort of Zweck-WG for frequent business travellers is kind of different, and yea, common enough. But the landlords know upfront what's going on.

 

That sounds more like AirBnB.

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5 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

That sounds more like AirBnB.

That's a whole other beast. AirBnB is generally short term.

 

I assume you know what I mean by a Zweck-WG, but they can last years. I know some who rent a room in a shared flat, but are only there part-time, due to travel-related work (where the place is rather fixed). I have a friend who rents part of an apartment in a rather expensive part of Hamburg, but her corporate consulting job (pure pablum, if you ask me) takes her to Bavaria at least 4 days a week, and occasionally other cities around Germany. Her family is in the Frankfurt area. She's only ever in 'her' flat a couple days every couple weeks or so, since her BF lives elsewhere and she'd rather spend her downtime with him. I think they now basically only use it as a crash pad if they're in Hamburg. Her company pays all her work-related travel expenses, accommodation on-site (another shared flat), a weekly meal stipend, and apparently some cost offsetting for her Hamburg room (which was chosen because it's near the HQ, although she seldom has to go there). On the plus side, she does save a lot of money, enough to put down payments on a house. So clearly not a permanent situation either way...

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To clarify a bit,

it's indeed that you first get permission from the landlord before doing this and tell him what you want to do.

Basically, instead the landlord has to look for potential owners, you take care of that and in return the landlord allows you to rent the apartment to 2/3 people and ask some higher fees so you earn as well.

 

My explanation is not great, here's a video about what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn6HYicPCOs

Samuel Leeds is for example the absolute champion in this R2R scheme in the UK, but I think the laws are less strict than in Germany.

Is this kind of scheme allowed (see video)?

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I'm still waiting for you to give me your name and address! I can help you out with this! :D

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I was being sarcastic, of course.

I wish the OP would understand that his great idea may be less than legal.

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Oh please. If I'd planned to do that, I would have sent the OP a private message.

 

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honestly, Metall... you reported him for "illegal activity" and we didn't take down the topic so now you've decided to take matters into your own hands.  I'm not sure if you think I'm that stupid or you're just that much smarter than everybody else.

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15 minutes ago, Metall said:

I wish the OP would understand that his great idea may be less than legal.

No, it´s not. He explicitely stated that he´d seek landlord´s approval. So why would it be "less than legal"?

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