Switching from Private to Public health Insurance

74 posts in this topic

:P:P Wow..not memory-deficient after all!! The cricket was great!

 

First point..yes, age is irrelevant.

If coming from a non

-EU country. Ouch.

I´m an insurance broker and work a lot with expats.

My favourite case :

a non-EU citizen, around 60, came to Germany on travel insurance. She was offered a job, not well-paid, but a job.

So health insurance..wat nun?

Public insurance turned her down--too old AND had had  private travel insurance for a few months. 

So I turned to private insurance and a company hassled. " Mr Gunn, you have dodgy clients. "

That was not my opinion but their legal department thought that.

Normally, you have to have an income above 60,750 euros gross a year to qualify for private insurance (2019)..was a bit less three  or four years ago but I digress,

So what happened? One private company agreed to take her IF she undertook a medical. So she did. And what happened? She passed it BUT she had had a womb removed about  10 years previously. So she had to go to a doc with a special form for a womb test. They had a form for that!

She protested: " in my country, we can erase the records after 5 years or so. "

Anyway, the German doc had a sense of humour and wrote in the form: " the Virgin Mary came here today and is healthy."

So they took  her!

( Shame she left the country two years later and I had to pay back the commission!)

 

:ph34r:

 

 

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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@john g. @PandaMunich  Update from my side. I was allowed to sign up for public healthcare!

 

Now I need to cancel my private policy. I am awaiting a letter from the private krankenkasse to send to my private insurance company, though I fear this might be a problem.  If they let me out, great. If they don't, what are my options?  Pay for 2 insurance policies for 6 months (not ideal)?  I am guessing that this is the only time that I will be allowed to make this switch.

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Congratulations, Crispy! What swung it for you? What convinced them?  Send the Welcome Letter from public insurance with your letter of cancellation. Old-fashioned though it is, fax is often the most effective form to communicate by in Germany with insurance companies if you are doing it alone.!!

 

You can now, while waiting for the Welcome Letter, also already write your cancellation, mentioning your current private health insurance number and tell them you have been accepted into public insurance as an employee from date xxx and that you will forward the proof asap.

Which public insurer has taken you after all?

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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4 hours ago, CrispyNYC said:

Update from my side. I was allowed to sign up for public healthcare!

 

Thank you for the update!

 
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I signed up with TK. I filled out the online form, they sent me a form to sign and they wanted some clarifications, so I called them. They asked if it was my first full time employment in Germany, I said yes and that was it. I sent back the form signed and I got the approval letter today.  Haha. I guess I was lucky.

 

I am a little worried about my current insurance company letting me out, I tried to switch to another private one a while ago and it didn't go well (it was mostly my fault, but I guess I was a bit scarred, haha).

 

I will fax, email & snail mail my cancellation, just to be sure! 

 

Thanks again for all of your help @john g. & @PandaMunich!

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4 hours ago, CrispyNYC said:

@john g. @PandaMunich  Update from my side. I was allowed to sign up for public healthcare!

 

Now I need to cancel my private policy. I am awaiting a letter from the private krankenkasse to send to my private insurance company, though I fear this might be a problem.  If they let me out, great. If they don't, what are my options?  Pay for 2 insurance policies for 6 months (not ideal)?  I am guessing that this is the only time that I will be allowed to make this switch.

You may have a dodgy month or so because of the switch over. You will probably be charged twice because it takes time to change. But if you handle it right, you will get your money back. 

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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5 minutes ago, CrispyNYC said:

I signed up with TK. I filled out the online form, they sent me a form to sign and they wanted some clarifications, so I called them. They asked if it was my first full time employment in Germany, I said yes and that was it. I sent back the form signed and I got the approval letter today.  Haha. I guess I was lucky.

 

I am a little worried about my current insurance company letting me out, I tried to switch to another private one a while ago and it didn't go well (it was mostly my fault, but I guess I was a bit scarred, haha).

 

I will fax, email & snail mail my cancellation, just to be sure! 

 

Thanks again for all of your help @john g. & @PandaMunich!

Hugs, babe!

Just goes to show how irrational it all is! Legal departments here..legal departments there!!

It can work!!!

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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So, a quick update from myself. I mentioned before that I spoke to SBK and they told me that because I’d been freelancing for more than 2 months, I wasn’t eligible to get on to public health insurance. I then tried with TKK, phoning them and explaining my situation. I spoke to 2 or 3 people and they told me that I couldn’t switch. I even quoted the law that @PandaMunich mentioned and they told me they were aware of this but that it didn’t apply. They then asked me to fill out the application form online. One question asks if your salary is above the threshold so I said ‘yes’. Then I saw the magic question that asks : Is this your first employment in Germany ? So I said ‘yes’ because it is. I’ve been a freelancer for many years (more than 10) and never employed until now. Anyway, a week later I got a letter in the post telling me that I’ve been accepted as a voluntary member. 

 

Now I’ve thought about this for a few years and looked up information on Toytown and on German language sites and they all say the same thing - Get a permanent job earning UNDER the threshold to get on to public health insurance. It wasn’t until I saw Panda’s wonderful post that I found out about the ‘first employment in Germany’ law.

 

So I would like to say a massive thank you to @PandaMunich for pointing out this law which seems to be unknown to a lot of people.  

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Hello everyone, long-time lurker and first-time poster here. I wanted to thank @PandaMunich and @john g.. for their comprehensive posts, they've helped me many times!

 

Sorry for the long post - here's my situation:

Like CrispyNYC, I've been a non-EU freelancer for about 2 years here with private insurance. When I arrived I was told that I couldn't get into the public insurance because I had the wrong visa category and never had public insurance before because I'm from the US etc.

 

In May I got a full-time work contract with a salary over 60k and I wanted to enter the public system. My company's HR told me I could not because I had private before, so I reluctantly accepted that and tried to get the visa paperwork from the private insurance. They were rude (in German, forget about English), horribly slow, and sent me documentation that the LABO rejected, although it is a German company and I am fully insured (it's not a travel insurance and I used the same insurance for my freelance renewal with no problem). The LABO said the letter must mention a regulation called § 257 Abs. 2 a SGB V, which this letter did not. I told the private insurance this and requested another letter from them, which at this point was taking weeks, and the next letter still did not mention this regulation.

 

By last week I was very frustrated because I couldn't even get the appointment for my new visa and couldn't work, so I decided to just try to get into TK using the method that CrispyNYC described. Surprisingly, they accepted me! I sent a cancellation to the private company and called them, and on the phone they said because I was switching to the public system that the cancellation would go through immediately with no problems. Of course, this was too good to be true.

 

Yesterday I received a letter by post saying my contract was renewed in May for a whole year until May 31 2020 (I started the insurance May 2017), and I cannot terminate until then because I am "freiwillig" in the public system and I don't have a special right of termination. My company's HR says I will have to cancel TK and continue with the private one but this seems disingenuous since I just got my new visa on the premise of having TK, and I'm not even 100% sure that the coverage is appropriate for full-time employment since the LABO rejected it.

 

I would like to continue with TK because despite (or maybe because of?) being from the US, I am happy to pay into the public system (I'm 33 and no health problems - touch wood - so I'm not trying to cheat the government). Although it would be cheaper for me now, I'm worried about how the premiums will go up as I age in the private system, and I find it annoying to pay for everything myself and submit receipts. TK is also much friendlier and happy to send me information in English, which I appreciate.

 

Is there any way I can cancel this terrible private insurance? They haven't raised my rates since December so I can't use that loophole, and I don't want to commit fraud by de-registering or anything like that (pretty sure they would see through that anyway since I would have to keep paying TK through my company). Even if I'm stuck in the private system, I would still like to change companies because dealing with these people is awful.

 

TL, DR: Non-EU Freelancer with private insurance got a job with salary over 60k and managed to get into TK (win!), then discovered they were trapped in a relentless deathgrip by aforementioned private insurance (fail). Any and all advice appreciated.

 

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That does not sound like a real (!) private German health insurance, I am afraid. Both their inability to send you the confirmation in accordance with § 257 Abs 4 SGB V and the info that there is another yearly renewal starting in May are clear signs that this is a German Expat-insurance (Hanse-Merkur, CareConcept, Mawista or something like that ? ) and not a fully comprehensive German private health insurance. Perhaps you can let us know the exact name of the health insurance plan first ? That way you can get better answers. 

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Thanks for your response @Starshollow happy to share. The company is called Universa and the plan is the uni-intro|Privat 300. The monthly premium is 343 EUR, so I really hope that it's a real one! A broker sold it to me and in retrospect I trusted them pretty blindly when I arrived because the system was so confusing. I contacted the broker to get my original contract but they haven't responded.

 

Here's what the letter Universa sent said:

My name "besteht bei unserem Unternehmen seit 30.05.2017 eine Krankheitskostenvollversicherung.
Zusätzlich besteht seit 30.05.2017 eine gesetzlich vorgeschriebene Pflegepflichtversicherung nach Tarif PVN.
Der Vertrag ist nicht gekündigt. Der Beitrag ist laufend bezahlt."

 

It doesn't mention § 257 Abs 4 SGB V directly so I assume that's why the LABO rejected it because after the rejection they sent a brochure which says in bold:

 

Im Rahmen der Mitwirkungspflicht nach § 82 Abs. 1 AufenthG haben die Antragstellenden den schriftlichen Nachweis des Krankenversicherungsunternehmens vorzulegen, dass es auf der Grundlage des bestehenden Versicherungsvertrages die gesetzlichen Voraussetzungen gemäß § 257 Abs. 2 a SGB V erfüllt.

 

A freelancer friend of mine showed me her letter from Hallesche and it directly mentions compliance to the regulation - that's when I started to worry that it wasn't a paperwork issue, but that the coverage was actually not compliant.

 

 

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ok, this is a real and fully comprehensive German private health insurance indeed and I can tell you definitly, that it is also fully compliant with § 257 Abs 4 SGB V.      You'll just need to ask them to send you an "ARbeitgeberbescheinigung", because that particular document will then contain all this confirmation.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hello all,

 

Due to fraudulent behaviour of an insurance agent (Vermittlerin) I was put in risk of losing insurance cover (vorvertragliche Pflichtverletzung §19 Abs. 1 VVG). To fix this problem I am paying a consulting firm to work to me on two fronts (work with the private provider to see if they will let me stay either with or without a "Zuschlag" and a public provider who will accept me if the private provider lets me off the contract, and with a lawyer to build a case against the company that represents this quack insurance lady, and to appear in court as witnesses if necessary.) For this consulting work, they have invoiced me 2000 euros (plus 19% VAT). I plan to make a claim against that company to recover these costs. My question is, is there kind of regulation (like the lawyers have with the Rechtsanwaltsvergütungsgesetz) or a table by IHK or any other governing body for insurance consultants? Details of the consultation agreement here :

On 6/17/2019, 6:35:22, generalmartok said:

here.

The lawyer said at one point he needs to make sure that the money I paid for this work is "marktüblich".

I just wanted to hear from the experts on TT about their opinions.

 

Thanks in advance!

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