Switching from Private to Public health Insurance

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That's great to hear @PandaMunich!  This is my first employee position in Germany.

 

Would I just signup as normal and notify my current provider of the switch?

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The employees don‘t always know that, Panda😟😂! This is often the issue. And there are sometimes issues about a new job and whether the whole of eg 2019 is the relevant income level for public v private.

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52 minutes ago, CrispyNYC said:

Would I just signup as normal and notify my current provider of the switch?

 

Yes, but I'm not sure whether they would immediately let you out of the private health insurance. 

 

As I read the law about the termination of private health insurance, §205 (2) VVG, they would only have to let you out immediately if you became a mandatory member (= pflichtversichert) of German public health insurance.

You, however, will become a voluntary member (= freiwillig versichert) of German public health insurance.

So you would really have to ask.

 

The easiest way to find out is probably to get your new Krankenkasse to issue you the letter they usually do for members who were previously privately insured, and to them send it to your private health insurance and see what happens.

Or ask a "Fachanwalt für Sozialrecht" this question, that initial consultation isn't allowed to cost more than 190€ + 19% VAT = 226.10 in accordance with §34 (1) RVG. You can find a "Fachanwalt für Sozialrecht" here: https://anwaltauskunft.de/magazin#ls-extended

  • Ort: Berlin
  • Fachanwältin / Fachanwalt: Sozialrecht
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23 minutes ago, CrispyNYC said:

That's great to hear @PandaMunich!  This is my first employee position in Germany.

 

Would I just signup as normal and notify my current provider of the switch?

You get the Welcome Letter from the public provider and send it to your current private insurer with your written cancellation.

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@PandaMunich @john g. If I was able to get the new Krankenkasse to issue the letter, would this be binding it the event that my current insurer doesn't let me out of my policy?  I don't want to get stuck paying for 2 insurance plans.

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1 hour ago, PandaMunich said:

 

No "might" about it, if it's @CrispyNYC's first employee position in Germany, he/she has a legal right to join German public health insurance under §9 (1) Nr. 3 SGB V

  • (1) Der Versicherung können beitreten
    ...
    3. Personen, die erstmals eine Beschäftigung im Inland aufnehmen und nach § 6 Absatz 1 Nummer 1 versicherungsfrei sind; Beschäftigungen vor oder während der beruflichen Ausbildung bleiben unberücksichtigt,

 

What  confuses many is, of course , the wording of (1) 3. where it mentions „ erstmals eine Beschäftigung im Inland aufnehmen. „ The average self-employed person reckons he/she IS already working😂!

Why  doesn‘t the law just say „ EMPLOYEE „ for the first time?

AND another moan from me: the word „ versicherungsfrei.“

That gives some the impression they are freed from the need to have health insurance.“

😟😟

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24 minutes ago, john g. said:

the wording of (1) 3. where it mentions „ erstmals eine Beschäftigung im Imland aufnehmen. „ The average self-employed person reckons he/she IS already working😂!

Why  doesn‘t the law just say „ EMPLOYEE „ for the first time?

 

Because the legal term for "being in employment" is "Beschäftigung", see the definition in §7 (1) SGB IV:

§ 7 Beschäftigung

(1) Beschäftigung ist die nichtselbständige Arbeit, insbesondere in einem Arbeitsverhältnis. Anhaltspunkte für eine Beschäftigung sind eine Tätigkeit nach Weisungen und eine Eingliederung in die Arbeitsorganisation des Weisungsgebers.

 

It's the same term in visa law, which again points back to the definition of "Beschäftigung" from §7 SGB IV in §2 (2) AufenthGhttps://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/242387-freelancing-as-english-teacher/#comment-2644827

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55 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

 

Quote system blues😟

 

Crispy- I have to call the legal dept of a major public insurer tomorrow anyway. You can save yourself the hassle of forking out money for a lawyer or whatever.

If you want- just shoot me a PM message. I will have only one question re income.

I can ask anonymously on your behalf - NO names - how they see the transition from private to public in such a case.

 NO fees or any obligations from me. 

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25 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

 

Because the legal term for "being in employment" is "Beschäftigung", see the definition in §7 (1) SGB IV:

§ 7 Beschäftigung

(1) Beschäftigung ist die nichtselbständige Arbeit, insbesondere in einem Arbeitsverhältnis. Anhaltspunkte für eine Beschäftigung sind eine Tätigkeit nach Weisungen und eine Eingliederung in die Arbeitsorganisation des Weisungsgebers.

 

It's the same term in visa law, which again points back to the definition of "Beschäftigung" from §7 SGB IV in §2 (2) AufenthGhttps://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/242387-freelancing-as-english-teacher/#comment-2644827

Fair enough but you ain‘t out of gaol yet!😂

What about the absurd „ versicherungsfrei „ word?

😂😂🙏🏻

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58 minutes ago, CrispyNYC said:

@PandaMunich @john g. If I was able to get the new Krankenkasse to issue the letter, would this be binding it the event that my current insurer doesn't let me out of my policy?  I don't want to get stuck paying for 2 insurance plans.

Nothing wrong with spending money on two insurance plans!😂

Less money for your vices and you‘ ll live longer!😁

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22 minutes ago, john g. said:

Fair enough but you ain‘t out of gaol yet!😂

What about the absurd „ versicherungsfrei „ word?

😂😂🙏🏻

 

"Versicherungsfrei" is simply a term that in this case describes that an employee who earns over the Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze (JAEG), which is also called Versicherungspflichtgrenze is not obliged to be insured in German public health insurance. Which nowadays means that they can either voluntarily remain in public health insurance, or they have to get private health insurance instead.

But back in the days before health insurance became obligatory for every resident in Germany, these high-earners could then simply choose not to be health insured at all.

 

You can read up the proper definition of "Versicherungsfreiheit" with all its cases here:  https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versicherungsfreiheit

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You‘re the best, Panda!😍😍😍

It‘s easier here in Greece! Cash!!!

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On 5/21/2019, 7:45:23, PandaMunich said:

 

Because the legal term for "being in employment" is "Beschäftigung", see the definition in §7 (1) SGB IV:

§ 7 Beschäftigung

(1) Beschäftigung ist die nichtselbständige Arbeit, insbesondere in einem Arbeitsverhältnis. Anhaltspunkte für eine Beschäftigung sind eine Tätigkeit nach Weisungen und eine Eingliederung in die Arbeitsorganisation des Weisungsgebers.

 

It's the same term in visa law, which again points back to the definition of "Beschäftigung" from §7 SGB IV in §2 (2) AufenthGhttps://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/242387-freelancing-as-english-teacher/#comment-2644827

Sigh...I spoke to the legal department of TK AND a Betriebskasse..and guess what? They both rejected the possibility of his getting into public insurance. Why? The first Beschäftigung (in their eyes ) refers to eg privately insured  students starting their first well-paid job or to (in this case ) a foreigner who is self-employed and with private insurance. Even a private travel insurance would disqualify a newcomer. ( I once had a case where that was the reason but neither public nor private German insurance wanted her...too old. It worked in the end with private but what a struggle and it included a womb test at a gyneacologist..for a lady client who had no womb anymore but anyway ). The gag, of course, is that certain people from outside the EU cannot even get public insurance when they arrive.

Plus: it would only work if it were the first ( well-paid ) job of a foreigner, new to Germany, 

The system is a joke.

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I am in awe of Panda and John, both warriors for the greater insurance good!

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After more than 10 years as a freelancer, I’m about to get my first permanent job in Germany. As a freelancer I’ve never had a contract with a German company. So I called SBK to ask them if I could join because I was about to get my first permanent position, and told them about what @PandaMunich said above. I was then told on the phone that because I’d been freelancing for 10 years, this was too long and there was a 2 month time limit from arrival in Germany to applying foe state health insurance. I’m not sure where he plucked the 2 months from. So it looks like even if what Panda says is correct, there will still be some opposition from the state health insurance companies to let you switch.

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On 27.5.2019, 08:00:55, Weevil said:

After more than 10 years as a freelancer, I’m about to get my first permanent job in Germany. As a freelancer I’ve never had a contract with a German company. So I called SBK to ask them if I could join because I was about to get my first permanent position, and told them about what @PandaMunich said above. I was then told on the phone that because I’d been freelancing for 10 years, this was too long and there was a 2 month time limit from arrival in Germany to applying foe state health insurance. I’m not sure where he plucked the 2 months from. So it looks like even if what Panda says is correct, there will still be some opposition from the state health insurance companies to let you switch.

it is indeed an ongoing discussion with public insurances how the "Beschäftigung" and the prior insurance status are dealt with.
One issue at hand here is that if you came from a EU-memberstate with state/national health insurance and decided NOT to continue this with German public insurance, you basically "opted out" from public health insurance which was open to you then.  From opting out there is no easy way back into the system. One could argue and make legal points as PandaMunich correctly shows above, but it might turn into a lengthy legal battle. Easiest way is and remains to pick up an employment initially with a gross salary below the legal threshold (called: Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze... never play scrabble with Germans :-)   ) and thus become compulsorily insured in public health insurance...which then allows you to continue in your own right as a voluntary member shortly after that when your gross salary increases over the threshold.

 

Cheerio

 

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ok

so what happens to a person who comes from another EU country to German at 60 ?, can they join the Public health system or must they private ?

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Yes, they can choose public insurance, yesterday. Guaranteed as long as they were publicly insured in the EU country they have just been living in. Even if they were privately insured in Germany before and are over the income limit.

My memory is selective/lousy/appalling  sometimes...didn´t you post earlier with that question? Maybe you did..but I can´t find it...got absorbed with the cricket this afternoon!

:lol::lol:

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no your memory is no bad - its just that I changed the text - to make it more simple :D I hope you enjoyed the cricket.

 

So, if you have lived in Germany with private insurance, then moved to the UK ( which only has public insurance), then moved  back to Germany ---> you would be treated as an EU national ( while we are in the EU) and thus get get into the public insurance system without any age or income limiations ?

 

What if you come from a non-EU country?

 

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