What to do when there is no available place in the Kitas?

29 posts in this topic

We are about to relocate to another city (Bochum) in 6 months from now, and we need to arrange many things, one of which is finding a Kita for our 5-year son.

We contacted many Kitas in the town (almost 20) no matter near my workplace or not, but all of them said that they are overbooked and no single empty place is available there. Unfortunately, we could not apply any earlier as i didn't know where i could find my next job! 

 

I also visited the "jugendamt" office, but they told us to go to the Kitas again and again and be persistent until they give us a place! But i noticed that advice is somehow awkward and impractical as many of them do not even open the door for you if you do not have an appointment, and they won't give you an appointment if you already have visited them!.

 

So i was wondering what we should do due to this situation? Our kid would be a pre-schooler by the time we relocate, and we cannot put him in a "tagesmutter", neither we can keep him at home since my wife and i are both working/studying.

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Maybe this thread will offer some idea, albeit in a different region:

 

Ultimately the town/city where you will live has a legal responsibility to provide you a place for your child.  Therefore you need to put pressure on them, tell them what you have done and that you have no luck provide them of proof of letters, emails etc. and tell them that they must find you a place otherwise you will sue them for loss of earnings!

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-rules-parents-with-no-day-care-options-can-sue-cities-for-lost-earnings/a-36102866

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Did you apply through the Bochum Kita Portal?  
https://www.kitaportal-bochum.de/profil

 

Yes, i already did that a month ago. it is limited to 5 applications, and they do not respond to them until March (or even never) which is too late. I think the concept of having this portal is positive, but it is not practical for cases like mine.

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15 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

tell them that they must find you a place otherwise you will sue them for loss of earnings!

 

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-rules-parents-with-no-day-care-options-can-sue-cities-for-lost-earnings/a-36102866

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Well, it is good to know such regulations exist, but finding a place is far more important for me than having compensation after a long lawsuit case. Maybe i'd try it at the Jjugendamt next time, but not sure if they really care about it!

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Just now, bobMorane said:

Well, it is good to know such regulations exist, but finding a place is far more important for me than having compensation after a long lawsuit case. Maybe i'd try it at the Jjugendamt next time, but not sure if they really care about it!

 

 

True.  But if you threaten then it does prove to them that you know your rights and you are serious!  Sometimes this is enough to give them a kick up the backside!

 

Also, my experience is that spaces often become available late.  So while you need to stay on top of them and keep pushing then you might only get a space 1 or 2 months in advance.

This happened to us when my wife wanted to go back to work after Elternzeit, but because of the late notice then we could then not take the place because we had agreed with her employer to extend Elternzeit by several months more (they were not so flexible).

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12 minutes ago, bobMorane said:

I think the concept of having this portal is positive, but it is not practical for cases like mine.

 

Did you try any of the contacts suggested on the website?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Also, my experience is that spaces often become available late.  So while you need to stay on top of them and keep pushing then you might only get a space 1 or 2 months in advance.

 

OK. Let's say that we move there in June (6 months from now), what should i do now? should i go to the Jugendamt office 1-2 more times and have a serious talk with them and then wait a few months until i hear back from them? or i should check with them every 2-3 weeks? 

Or i should contact the Kitas every 2-3 weeks?

Honestly, i do not know what exactly should do in this situation?!  :-(

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3 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Did you try any of the contacts suggested on the website?

 

Sorry, i'm not sure what exactly you mean?

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2 hours ago, bobMorane said:

... we cannot put him in a "tagesmutter".

Why not?

There is such a thing as a Leih Oma.  But what would the difference be except age?

Au pair.

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I don't know a single couple who had and easy time finding a kita in munich, at least.  They all meticulously played by the rules, applying every time they could for years in some cases, quite literally harassing the kitas in person and by phone, beyond reason, and in the end, 4 out of 5 ended up paying for a private kita (crazy expensive and not remotely affordable) when it was time for mom to return to work.

 

the one who did manage to find a spot was planning to move outside the city and she schlepped her kids far outside town every day for a year before their house was finished, just to be sure they kept their spots.  She's also a teacher so maybe had an "in" - not sure about that part but suffice it to say, it's completely unreasonable.  

 

I've found this lack of kita space pretty baffling.  I mean, the gov is encouraging people to have more kids, then there's no care for them even though that's allegedly part of the deal?  wtf?

 

not baffling considering the crap pay and conditions offered to preschool teachers, but come on.  This is not rocket science.  A somewhat similar slide into disregard for education is what led to a hugely dumb populace in the US -> trump.  I thought Germany was more clued in than this, frankly.

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 Germany does not really even have a population to do this:  not many younger people, and lots of choice.   In a world where a young woman can easily earn in a comfy coffee shop and then travel a bit, why do that job?  And where are lowerpaid services worker supposed to live in the places the middle class dual income professionals flock to and price them out of, and who often complain themselves about housing costs?   It is also classic neo-con "nappy politics".  The cynical game of "encouraging" people to have kids, then transfering provision and on-costs to them, and playing them off against each other in a scrap for best resource.  Politicians do it because they know it works.  Every last time.  (Expect more bills like paid for Uni education - it's a standard template).   Family policy is where we very much see the "right" aspects of Germany's right-wing government.

 

Same story in DA but we have far fewer issues in a part of Berlin that's not in demand.   So my other tip might be to go where the "sharp elbowed" professionals aren't.   That's how me and my family have largely managed in Germany, really.    Otherwise, I agree with the replies who say you have to do the process.  Do whatever it takes.  If you've not done what is needed, you will be bottom of the list.  It's stating the obvious but expecting flexibility from others ("What happens if I wait till June?")  can be a it of a luxury when what we want is limited.  It's us who tend to have to be flexible (so moving earlier etc) if we don't want the scraps. 

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my point was precisely that they need to pay kita workers better.  If they did, they would be better able to attract educated, decent teachers.  Paying them as "service workers" is an extraordinarily large part of the problem.

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Can only confirm in Hamburg too the kita worker pay is way too low...one cannot afford to live on it. Alternatives are , if you have the space, au pair, sometimes you canget one whose ocntract is over or who wants to change family fast and has experience, of course not as good as a Kita, once when I did not have a Kita spot for my daughter with kids she could play with (they left) I would bring her to the local sports club which has tons of children's acivities as was better than nothing, was only late afternoons though but got her some action with other chidlren and she loved it...also can try Tagesmutter, boring as not lots of children to play with, but at least will get some German language and culture exposure...not sure why a Tagesmutter wont work, in HH and in Niedersachen they take on children over 3 as well ... or have a grandparent come over for a few months...

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It's been in the news several times lately, about why there is a lack of Kindergarten teachers. They don't get paid during their training years. SPD politician Giffey wants to change that: https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/erzieherinnen-giffey-101.html
 

Quote

 

Viele angehende Erzieherinnen und Erzieher brechen ihre Ausbildung ab. Wohl auch, weil sie in der Ausbildung kein Gehalt bekommen. Genau da setzt Familienministerin Giffey an.


 

 

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Isn't it the case that the town is legally obligated to provide a kita space after a certain age and if you sue them they must pay for private if they can't organise something? 

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3 hours ago, LeonG said:

Isn't it the case that the town is legally obligated to provide a kita space after a certain age and if you sue them they must pay for private if they can't organise something? 

 

Yes and no. The child is not even in Bochum, so there is no legal claim to a place in Bochum:

 

"Die Stadt Bochum kann Ihren Rechtsanspruch nur erfüllen, wenn Ihr Kind zum Betreuungsbeginn in Bochum gemeldet ist."

 

"The city of Bochum can only fulfill your legal claim if your child is registered in Bochum at the beginning of the childcare period."

 

https://www.bochum.de/kitaportal

 

In addition, the childcare entitlement will also be fulfilled with a Tagesmutter, but Bob rejects that ... for whatever reason.

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1 hour ago, someonesdaughter said:

n addition, the childcare entitlement will also be fulfilled with a Tagesmutter, but Bob rejects that ... for whatever reason.

Well, generally I'm not against Tagesmutter, but I've heard that Kitas have specific educational programs for pre-schoolers (5+) to prepare them for the school year. Even I've been told by some Kitas that they are booked out especially for the pre-schoolers. 

So, I do not know what exact program they have for the pre-schoolers, but I'm afraid a Tagesmutter cannot provide that.

Otherwise, why not?

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16 minutes ago, bobMorane said:

Well, generally I'm not against Tagesmutter, but I've heard that Kitas have specific educational programs for pre-schoolers (5+) to prepare them for the school year. Even I've been told by some Kitas that they are booked out especially for the pre-schoolers. 

 

Some yes, some no. In general, Kigas and Kitas are not preschools. 

 

All federal states have their own educational plans, most (such as the one in Baden-Württemberg, where I live) emphasise that education is not to be understood as school-based education and that learning content is not transferred from primary school to Kigas and Kitas. Don't count on you having the choice.

 

 

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Kita =  Kindertagesstätte.    My memory of the last round of it is getting distant but highlights include developing motor skills (via activities like endless papercutting and play etc) and ironing out perceived minor speech defects and such.   It's great for all of that (and that identification of needs might not be something an individual carer cannot so easily replicate).   That would be a part of "preparing them for school" I suppose.   Just the socialisation is a big part of that of course.   But as above, that's all a specific locale and some time ago.   What I can say though now is much of their social group from that era has been a fabulous anchor :lol:. Do not underestimate simply the forming of their little community in a familiar place, a huge basis for school, and life.

 

If any does optionally offer the sort of specific extra thing you are looking for, one might expect serious competition from others just like you (and possibly to pay).     Goalposts are getting moved and you may even make the goal much smaller.   The "Why can't I access a mandatory service?"  is now "Why can't I access a specific a part of service that it is not probably actually mandatory and will thus be less common and possibly in high demand?".

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