Genossenschaftsanteile

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I have just started apartment searching in Leipzig.  I have a limited budget, so have been looking for lower rents.  I have seen a number of apartments listed in Grünau, that sound very cheap, rent wise.  I however have came across this statement "Es sind Genossenschaftsanteile gemäß Satzung zu zeichnen. Der angegebene Mietpreis kann auf Grund individueller Ausstattungswünsche variieren. "  This makes me wonder.  Does this mean I have to purchase a share in the cooperative?  Are these apartments owned by an individual owner, or by the cooperative?  I'm finding apartment hunting, isn't all that easy.

 

Before you say anything about Grünau, I have seen the area.  I do not find it unsuitable. Compared to some other areas, I think it is quite suitable for me.  I am not afraid to live in a Plattenbau, and there is plenty of green space around.  I am a senior, so am not looking to be near clubs and the like.   I'm looking for a comfortable place for me and my dog. Convenient to transportation, and shopping.

 

 

 

Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, kenny1948 said:

Does this mean I have to purchase a share in the cooperative? 

 

Yup.

 

4 minutes ago, kenny1948 said:

 

Are these apartments owned by an individual owner, or by the cooperative? 

 

By the cooperative. You become a member of that cooperative by buying shares.

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5 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

Yup.

 

 

By the cooperative. You become a member of that cooperative by buying shares.

 

Honestly I don't totally understand co-operatives.  I once owned an apartment in a co-op.  By having a share it meant I was part owner of the building.  Is it the same here?

 

The company renting is UNITAS  I am worried that the share could be rather high, as they do not state the amount. I am thinking ads from this company are simply come-ons.

 

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https://www.wohnungsbaugenossenschaften.de/genossenschaften/wie-funktioniert-genossenschaft/how-cooperatives-work

 

Yes, you have a share in a company that owns the apartment.   Then you rent the apartment.  Your asset is a share in the company, not actually property, which belongs to the company.

 

The straightforward purchase system for an apartment would be how you'd normally (co-)own the land and building yourself.

 

Obviously you need to do your due diligence.  On the other hand, as housing gets more scarce and expensive and a bubble builds, visible offers of all types tend to increase, so it equally may also be just the market speaking.  (As your difficulty sourcing one indicates).

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If in doubt, get some specialist advice.   Not sure many people have much experience.  Given what you say about age, I might be interested in the value of a share in terms of how long one might use it and that sort of thing, and what happens on death (does a legatee then get the same).   The blurb tends to talk up "lifelong" as a big positive, but how much so then for those of us already of a certain age?   

 

I know it won't matter when we are gone but we still may have better value and more comfortable options that do not tie up capital, but, on the other hand, it may still be better than being priced out in our late 70s or whatever, not impossible given how things are going.   I think it's an interesting question but one perhaps to get expert view on in terms of "payback" or "value for money",  including in comparison to your other options.

 

All I know about Grünau is from living near the Berlin district of that name, which is an obscure leafy Olympic sailing venue where nothing happens, and so web searches on the name just throw up depressing info about the Leipzig one :ph34r:.   In general, I am not sure migrating to live in an (reportedly) more struggling foreign locale is the most advisable thing and especially not if one is (like much of the population that has not left) getting older - from Wikipedia:   

 

Quote

 Trotz einer guten Infrastruktur ist Grünau seit 1990 im Schrumpfen begriffen und hat seitdem beinahe die Hälfte seiner Einwohner verloren. Gleichzeitig gibt es durch zunehmende Überalterung und Ansiedlung einkommensschwacher Haushalte einen negativen Trend in der Alters- und Sozialstruktur dieses Wohngebietes.

 

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The Anteil that i had to pay when I moved into the Genossenschaft where I live was based on the size of the apartment, so maybe that’s also the case?

if you can get into a Genossenschaft, I highly highly recommend it. The quality of living is much better than simply living in a rental. The Nachbarschaft is much better and the Hausverwaltung is also much better.

 

I don’t know how easy it is

to get into a Genossenschaft in Leipzig, but I’ve heard it’s very difficult in Berlin. I’ve heard stories of people being on the waiting list from a waiting list (I don’t even know how that works), so if you can get into one, go for it!

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My boyfriend lives in a Genossenschaft flat in Starnberg. It is roomy and dirt cheap compared to all other living options in the region.

 

When my divorce was going through, I looked into purchasing Anteile with the Genossenschaft he is with, and at the time it was still possible (2008), but only for those who were willing to sign that they would not be requiring a flat themselves, due to a shortage.

By 2011 they were no longer accepting any new investors.

 

Thus any money invested with them would earn interest and further Anteile over the years - until 2010 they were still paying 4% or more, but that has also reduced over the years.

Unfortunately, I didn't invest in Anteile when I had the chance, and now the chance is no longer available, and I wish I had.

 

So, in my opinion, if you can become a member of a Wohngenossenschaft, then do so ASAP.

 

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On 12/15/2018, 1:49:15, RedMidge said:

OP- did you make the move to Germany and sort out your health insurance?

 

I haven't moved yet.  I did sort out the insurance stuff.  I was accepted into BKK and will be paying 180 Euro a month.  I am still not sure whether I am going to move or not, but I must decide by the end of March, or I will have to apply all over again.  I wish I had known about the insurance a year ago, when I was in Leipzig.  Had I known then, I would be living there by now.  I am worried about finding an apartment without a SCHUFA.  I will not be working, but supporting myself with savings and my social security payment.  I have done all the math, it is cheaper to live there, than where I currently am.  I now must have a car, pay insurance on it, pay for gas.  Likewise where I live, I am an extreme minority.  I live in Trump country, and I despise the man.  One reason I want to move.  Second is that I AM a German Citizen by birth who has a German Passport.  I'm not getting any younger however, and this also worries me.  I have seen a lot of places listed on the LWB website, but they do not say whether pets are allowed or not.  I'd hate to find out later, that I can't find a place.  It was so easier here.  I bought this place without ever actually seeing it, other than in photos.  It's a nice little place, but the people suck!  Sorry to go on so.  I have been trying to make this move for years now, and something always got in the way.  It's been a dream of mine, since I spent six months in Germany way back in 87.

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On 12/16/2018, 1:44:31, Santitas said:

The Anteil that i had to pay when I moved into the Genossenschaft where I live was based on the size of the apartment, so maybe that’s also the case?

if you can get into a Genossenschaft, I highly highly recommend it. The quality of living is much better than simply living in a rental. The Nachbarschaft is much better and the Hausverwaltung is also much better.

 

What I'm not sure about is, is it simply a "share" or are you buying the apartment.  I e'mailed them and asked, but did not get a reply.  I simply asked "how much"?  They seem to have a lot of apartments available, which is what bothers me.  I had a Condo in Tampa ten years ago, and royally got burned.  Had it for my parents, when Dad died, Mom didn't want to stay there.  I ended up selling it for half of what I paid for it.  Once the bubble burst, those condos plunged in value.  Luckily I got what I did.  When I last checked, it was valued at a quarter of what I sold it for.

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23 minutes ago, kenny1948 said:

What I'm not sure about is, is it simply a "share" or are you buying the apartment.  I e'mailed them and asked, but did not get a reply.  I simply asked "how much"?  They seem to have a lot of apartments available, which is what bothers me.  I had a Condo in Tampa ten years ago, and royally got burned.  Had it for my parents, when Dad died, Mom didn't want to stay there.  I ended up selling it for half of what I paid for it.  Once the bubble burst, those condos plunged in value.  Luckily I got what I did.  When I last checked, it was valued at a quarter of what I sold it for.

It’s simply a share. I do not own the apartment.

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I opened a Girokonto at Deutsche Kreditbank (DKB) without even needing to be in-country or deposit funds. They employed a third-party ID verification firm that accomplished this task via a Skype-like interface. The best part is that DKB is a correspondent firm with Schufa, so having an account there automatically generated a Schufa listing in my name.

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5 hours ago, wmlgage said:

I opened a Girokonto at Deutsche Kreditbank (DKB) without even needing to be in-country or deposit funds. They employed a third-party ID verification firm that accomplished this task via a Skype-like interface. The best part is that DKB is a correspondent firm with Schufa, so having an account there automatically generated a Schufa listing in my name.

Couldn’t it still be an issue though if the Schufa has no credit history on it?

When I moved to Germany, I opened a bank account with him Deutsche Bank, and I had a Schufa, but o2 wouldn’t let me get a little phone plan with a new iPhone because I had no credit history showing that I pay my bills regularly and on time

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7 hours ago, wmlgage said:

The best part is that DKB is a correspondent firm with Schufa, so having an account there automatically generated a Schufa listing in my name.

 

Just for the record, every bank in Germany is a correspondent firm with Schufa (and various other inquiry agencies) and a Schufa listing per se won't get you very far. Unlike in the USA, for example, it is not good here to have as many entries as possible. The decisive factor is the score that the Schufa creates on the basis of partially questionable variables such as the residential area and which is supposed to reflect the probability with which you pay your bills in the future. The lower the score, the worse and while 100 is the best only theoretically achievable value, the increased risk of failure begins at under 95 ... 

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