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Risk Aversion

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It may be rare to get bad tenants but like somebody told me once, the odds are low but if it happens to you, it happens a 100%.  I don't think I would want to rent out in Germany unless I had a few apartments to spread the risk.  Back when I was working in manpower, the boss of my agency told me that she knew an older manpower worker who he and his wife had put all their savings in a house with 3 apartments.  They lived in one and rented out two.  It was supposed to be their retirement.  Their luck, neither tenant paid.  One of them, they eventually got evicted a year or so later with costs etc.  The other had a disabled child and could not be evicted.  They eventually lost their house as they couldn't pay the mortgage.

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Right.  A key component of risk management theory is the relationship between probability and impact.   That one is classic low probability but high impact, which can be hard to decide on because it seems comfortingly unlikely but, if it happens, the impact's huge (and not only direct cost but effort, emotion, disruption etc as you say).    While out running in snow and ice today (with snowchains natch), I was aware of "OK, it's really really unlikely but I must be vigilant and cautious because if I did slip and hit my head or seriously damage my back...".

 

Theory says we transfer these risks (i.e. insurance) as per last night's discussion about the example of 3rd party liability.   But if we cannot, we have to think long and hard about accepting it and do what due diligence we can.  The housing market may have changed a bit there for example as it booms: references more likely to be demanded etc.   Many people do avoid such risks around property because of that, of course.    We can also transfer parts (as per that other thread about legal insurance potentially helping in a multi-part renter dispute).

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13 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

I've read that. It is an extremely rare case. We've had zero problems with our renters. Even if we did, it' a very small place so not much to destroy. Wish we had bought more than one in hindsight.

 

We have an apartment that we rent. We have had zero issues with it as well and her rent pays off our kitchen every month. Cant beat that. 

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15 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Can you not give it a go with one apartment and then another, etc.? You don't show your location so who knows how the rental market is in your area but you don't have to invest locally being retired and all. It would give you a project and something meaningful to do as well as generate a little income or a lot.

 

We have one already that we rent and have had zero issues with it. I just want more. Like an empire😂. The wife doesnt want to deal it which I dont blame her. My German is ok (B1) and most of the paperwork would fall on her i suppose. We are between Mannheim and Darmstadt in Heppenheim, a great location and the rental market here is great yet maybe a bit expensive.

 

Ive looked into investing back in the states. Its just a matter of keeping an eye on it. Im slowly wearing her down. She will break sooner or later.    

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17 hours ago, LeonG said:

It may be rare to get bad tenants

21 hours ago, fraufruit said:

It is an extremely rare case.

 

But these "rare" cases of conflict keep an entire organization in business... Mieterverin.  

I wonder how many of their employees own properties for rent.

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3 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

But these "rare" cases of conflict keep an entire organization in business... Mieterverin.  

I wonder how many of their employees own properties for rent.

 

The Mieterverein is about tenants rights.  It's not there for the purpose of helping tenants who don't want to pay rent, it's there to help people who are being abused by their landlords.  It's actually not uncommon and you can read about it on here all the time how some landlords or -ladies behave towards their tenants.  What was a recent case, for example, the landlord keeping a key and sneaking into the apartment when they aren't home, later complaining that they left the apartment messy before going to work or some such.  Trying to evict tenants illegally without a notice period.  Keeping security deposit for made up reasons etc. etc.

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25 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

But these "rare" cases of conflict keep an entire organization in business... Mieterverin. 

I wonder how many of their employees own properties for rent.

????

 

where can I get some of what you're smoking?

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23 hours ago, lisa13 said:

where can I get some of what you're smoking?

 

stick with the meds you're supposed to be taking...

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On 15/12/2018, 22:12:11, swimmer said:

Many senior managers round me face personal liability risks of litigation and even prison if their products are damaging.

This is critical. It is a litigious society bathed in negativity and fear, low levels of cooperation. Taking initiative (eigenhändiges Verhalten) is seen as negative. The Germanics tend to talk about the smallest step forward for hours considering all angles and eventualities. Usually nothing happens cos they dig themselves into a bog of inertia. The opposite of dynamism.

 

You should see them trying to organise a tennis tournament (where you don't need a lawyer, an accountant and a tax advisor) let alone run a company. Nobody is ever responsible for anything unless it is specified from Day 1 in writing. Hot potato is a popular game.

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On 17/12/2018, 08:00:39, Petro6golf said:

We have one already that we rent and have had zero issues with it.

And you think this is the rule?

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On 17/12/2018, 08:00:39, Petro6golf said:

 Im slowly wearing her down. She will break sooner or later.   

The master manipulator?

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53 minutes ago, catjones said:

 

stick with the meds you're supposed to be taking...

 

at least I know what the mieterverein is for.  Maybe you should look into meds for yourself.

 

mrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeoooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

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16 minutes ago, optimista said:

This is critical. It is a litigious society bathed in negativity and fear, low levels of cooperation. Taking initiative (eigenhändiges Verhalten) is seen as negative. The Germanics tend to talk about the smallest step forward for hours considering all angles and eventualities. Usually nothing happens cos they dig themselves into a bog of inertia. The opposite of dynamism.

 

 

Yup Germany is an enterprise graveyard. We've discussed before how the idea of a "startup" in Berlin is a joke. They do build old products well here  - cars - machine tools etc. But anything world changing from the last 10 years? Nope.

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16 minutes ago, jeremytwo said:

We've discussed before how the idea of a "startup" in Berlin is a joke.

 

Soundcloud

 

175 million users,  $200 million in venture capital investment in 2017 alone. Spotify are eying it  for a buyout.

 

*giggles*

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Ahem, not so fast young lady...

 

Check out the three main investors in Soundcloud:

 

Quote

Doughty Hanson is headquartered in London and has offices in Frankfurt, Madrid, Milan, Munich, Paris and Stockholm.

 

Quote

Union Square Ventures (USV), is an American New York-based venture capital firm, that manages assets totaling $1 billion as of March 2016

 

Quote

Index Ventures is an international venture capital firm with dual headquarters in San Francisco and London,[1] investing in technology-enabled companies

 

So sorry dear the main risk-taking driving investment is not German. 

 

*sniggers back*

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6 minutes ago, jeremytwo said:

Ahem, not so fast young lady...

Check out the three main investors in Soundcloud:

So sorry dear the main risk-taking driving investment is not German. 

 

*sniggers back*

 

Let me see,

 

Claims 

"We've discussed before how the idea of a "startup" in Berlin is a joke"

Gets pointed out that Soundcloud is a  Berlin startup.

Shouts oh look there`s a squirrel and tries to move the goal post  

 

Umm duhhhh

 

To that end

Doughty Hanson

 

In 1990, Dick and Nigel established CWB Capital Partners, a private equity joint venture between Standard Chartered and Westdeutsche Landesbank. They spun out of CWB Capital Partners to form DH.

I will add that  am an investor in DH & I`m German too.

 

Can a mod move the post above to the misogynist Twat of the day thread please?

 

And you can stick your "dear" up your sorry ass

 

* giggles even more *

 

 

 

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As well as Zalando, plus numerous inventions and innovations like the STED-Microscope, mp3, Airbus 380...

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I think the US's Zappos predates Zalando by about 10 years. Zalando is a 100% duplicate of Zappos which I personally appreciate, but I don't think it was at all original, let alone "risky" given the success of Zappos.

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There is a lot of goalpost moving here.  Risk is only ever subjective. Soundcloud was never profitable and is now owned by venture capitalists.  Is there risk there?   Those venture capitalists noted that the founders wanted the successful profligate business life despite not being successful.   Some people may see founding a perpetual lossmaker that may be a route to bankruptcy or bank bailout as a "risk".   Others more as a scenester herdfollower means to the vogue life option, that they can simply bail out of when the cash is turned off after an enjoyable few years

 

Round my way?  The first nondestructive landing on a comet nucleus (2016, Churyumov-Garasimenko, aka Philae / Rosetta).   Mercury Planet Orbiter and Magnetospheric Orbiter (2018, aka BepiColombo).   The Copernicus Sentinel programme covering a range of innovation, including most recently high precision measurements of global sealevel.   Just a small set from within 2km of where I live.  There's plenty more.   Collosal sums and a lot of time and national pride and the rest invested in that, better make sure it happens.

 

Then there's three chemical elements added to the periodic table in recent times (Hassium, Darmstadtium, Copernicium) from innovation in heavy ion technology that has a wide range of modern applications including increasing use in advanced medical techology.   And heaps more.    There's patents going in for products that will sell all over the world all the time:  pharma, chemicals, beautycare, coatings, coverings, gadgets and appliances and lots more.

 

And yet foreigners still sit at home and lecture on how Germany is not innovative and won't take risk - apparently because their neighbours have better things to do than run their own car repair garage that'd probably earn a pittance -  when all this amazing fabulous stuff is going on around them :).   They are missing out on a wide and fascinating world, stuffed with entrepeneurship and innovation.

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