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A rant about life in Frankfurt

163 posts in this topic

Ami, I never took your comments personally...but I still think that when you said anyone with the view that beer is as bad as heroin is a moron included me also as I have that view.

 

Of course 1 beer compared to 1 shot of heroin is not as bad..but I am taking it as the bigger picture and basing my comments on alcholism compared to junkyism (new word) and stand by my opinion that it is just as bad.

 

The way I see it.. one glass of wine to steady your nerves could easily turn into 10 bottles a day if you are that way inclined...1 joint could easily turn into a shot of heroin...if you are that way inclined.

 

 

Back to the issue at hand, I don't know if you have children, but if you do (and if you don't you can just pretend), what would concern you more coming from their mouths: 'Mom, I had a pint last night' or 'Mom, I shot up last night'?

Yes I do have children...but often try to pretend I haven't :D. I can't do the comparison as you have..."1 pint or a shot of heroin"...it's not reality is it? Nobody goes straight to heroin and nobody goes straight to alcoholism...its a gradual process. A better comparison is "Mum I had a pint" or "Mum I had a spliff"...and if he did do that he would be grounded ( and I would confiscate his spliff ;) ) but I'm not going to worry that he is turning into an alky or a druggie.

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A lot of people who use heroin have their habit under control. You take heroin and still do an honest days work. A heroin addict lying in the gutter is not a typical user. Just as the alcoholic lying in the gutter in not typical of people who drink.

 

Right I'm off for a quick stiff one. Cheers all!

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Right I'm off for a quick stiff one
At first I read "a quick spliff" !!

 

 

You take heroin and still do an honest days work

Just like Kate Moss and Boy George! :lol: Crikey, perhaps I should do a line of cocaine every morning, you know, to get me in the mood for work like those two do... :wacko: :doh: ;)

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so that you could smoke it?

What else would one do with a good spliff?

 

I'm with Andrea on this one. There are people who use drugs, and people who don't, and it's irrelevant which drug that is. Of those who do, there are some who don't know when to stop.

 

The end result is the same. As far as prohibition is concerned: Just look at America in the 30's. Alcohol is the most widely used drug, it is socially accepted, and the statistics prove that the incidence of lifes ruined as a percentage of the population is much higher from alcohol than from all the forbidden drugs together. Merely because of the much wider use and misuse.

 

AMI: even if only 10% of those using alcohol are serious misusers (and the regular intake of more than 2 pints in one day is considered to be misuse medically), that is still more of the population than there are drug addicts.

 

Many people enjoy an occasional glass of wine, or a beer, others enjoy an occasional spliff. Some drink brandy, or whiskey, every day, others jack up on heroin, or coke..

 

It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it.

 

In that respect, there is very little difference between alcoholics and drug addicts, both have an uncontrolled addiction to their preffered drug. The end results in the extreme cases are indeed the same.

 

So what about uncontrolled eating? Or even uncontrolled not eating? Hypochondriacs? They are also addictions, as the definition of an addiction is a compulsive habit.

 

That is the result of a psychological deficiency, not an illness. It is irrelevant if that is alcohol, "drugs", medicine, chocolate, coffee or tea. Even salt and sugar, and chicken vindaloos, are habit building. As are fast cars, bungee jumping and parachuting, or even flying kites.

 

It is all just a question of your kick, and how well you can control it -- there will always be some who can't, and wreck at least their own and their family's lives, and maybe a few others as well.

 

As far as alcohol and hard drugs are concerned: alcoholics kill more uninvolved third parties than druggies do. That is a statistical fact. More families are destroyed by alcohol abuse than all other drugs together.

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Right I'm off for a quick stiff one.

...indeed :o ...nice if you can get one :)

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To me it sends out the message...go bad...get good...and get rewarded...What a heap of shit.

Hmmm although I am not familiar with this particular award/person, to me it would seem that the message is "Sort your life out, get with the system and society will show it's appreciation"

 

What would you prefer, public burning of Junkies and Alkies while you sit and watch the show enjoying your G and T and drawing on the joint you just confiscated from your son?

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"Sort your life out, get with the system and society will show it's appreciation"
While the kids that faced with the same problems as him managed to sort their lives out without the drugs get naff all...yeah nice one!!!

 

 

What would you prefer, public burning of Junkies and Alkies while you sit and watch the show enjoying your G and T and drawing on the joint you just confiscated from your son?

I wouldn't say public burning...but stick them on an island and let them ruin their own lives would get my vote.

 

I'm considering giving the joint back to him...let him get high go out and nick a few cars and then let the state pay for his driving lessons to help get him back on track...save me digging in my pockets wouldn't it?

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but stick them on an island

haven't we already filled Australia? :ph34r:

 

@Mike_a: well said! Been trying to think how best to phrase my opinion on this and you have summed it nicely :D

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While the kids that faced with the same problems as him managed to sort their lives out without the drugs get naff all...yeah nice one!!!
Who said life was fair? I've never read that guarantee on the box it came in.

 

So how many award recipients were ex-drug addicts and how many were clean? If the majority were ex-addicts then your argument may have some substance, but as I get the impression that the person in question was unique then what's the problem?

 

I never said I agreed entirely with the giving of this award (especially as I dont know the details) but it seems to be a political message given out there and if it helps then so be it.

 

 

I wouldn't say public burning...but stick them on an island and let them ruin their own lives would get my vote.

Point out an Island that would fit them all in then put your suggestion in the box, I'm sure it would work

 

 

I'm considering giving the joint back to him...let him get high go out and nick a few cars and then let the state pay for his driving lessons to help get him back on track...save me digging in my pockets wouldn't it?

Why not destroy it in front of him, it wouldn't smack so much of double standards then.

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I've never read that guarantee on the box it came in.
Not everybody's life comes in a box!

 

 

So how many award recipients were ex-drug addicts and how many were clean?

Most of the awards were given to people who had done something brave..like rescue someone from a burning building etc..more worthy in my eyes.

 

 

but as I get the impression that the person in question was unique then what's the problem?
Depends what your idea of unique is...I would say that someone is unique by getting through the rough patches without the drugs!

 

 

Why not destroy it in front of him, it wouldn't smack so much of double standards then

This was hypothetical...my son wouldn't be stupid enough to go down that road!!

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Not everybody's life comes in a box!
Well most seem to end it in one

 

 

Most of the awards were given to people who had done something brave..like rescue someone from a burning building etc..more worthy in my eyes.

I agree people who put themselves at risk to help others should be awarded, doesn't often happen though bit of a right place, right time thing. However maybe the person in question wasn't given the award for what he has done rather more for the message it would send out and the hoped for effect on those still in the gutter.

 

 

Depends what your idea of unique is...I would say that someone is unique by getting through the rough patches without the drugs!
The word unique is applicable in this case if he was the only ex-junky given an award I suggest you look it up in a dictionary.

 

 

This was hypothetical...my son wouldn't be stupid enough to go down that road!!

I really hope so for his sake, but famous last words and all that. It wouldn't be the first time.

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However maybe the person in question wasn't given the award for what he has done rather more for the message it would send out and the hoped for effect on those still in the gutter.
Well obviously we'll have to agree to disagree on what our perception of the message is.

 

 

I suggest you look it up in a dictionary.

Yes Sir

 

 

I really hope so for his sake, but famous last words and all that. It wouldn't be the first time

I'm pretty positive I'm a better judge on that one than you.

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If I may just dive in here. There has been an awful lot of rubbish talked here - mostly to defend or attack a ridiculous viewpoint which wasn't in fact expressed. Nobody (I hope) said "Heroin and Alcohol are just as bad as each other". I really hope nobody meant that, because it's so stupid it doesn't even merit discussion!

 

What was said is that addiction to alcohol is just as bad as addiction to heroin.

I am inclined to think it's not, but I can't really prove that - so let's leave that aside for the moment.

 

It is pretty much universally agreed that addiction to either is a 'bad' thing, so something should be done to reduce to a minimum the use of these 'drugs'. However, even if we agree that the effects of addiction to both are the same, that's not an argument for treating both drugs the same way. The argument "Alcohol causes just as much damage to society as heroin so they should either both be legal or both be illegal" is not a sensible viewpoint. As Mike_A has already pointed out, prohibition is a complete non-starter as the US proved between 1919 and 1933. It's pretty near impossible to enforce, costs a fortune and reduces government revenue from taxation.

 

So who wants to live in a society where heroin is legal? Not many people I shouldn't think. So of course it should remain illegal. It's an inconsistency, I'll grant you, but a necessary one.

 

Jean-Pierre

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prohibition... It's pretty near impossible to enforce, costs a fortune and reduces government revenue from taxation

Exactly what's happening with drugs now.

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prohibition... It's pretty near impossible to enforce, costs a fortune and reduces government revenue from taxation

 

Exactly what's happening with drugs now.

Bingo, eric. I often wonder what's wrong with simply legalizing drugs and then taxing the hell out of them. The revenue generated from taxes could then cover the drain that heavy drug users cause the economy, and could also be used to fund critical education programs to raise awareness of the consequences of drug use. The reason I've never tried 'hard' drugs is because my 7th grade health teacher scared the hell out of me, and I understand what could happen if I try something like heroin even just once. Also, I had the first hand example of Len Bias (does anyone here know who that is?? maybe you, Ami??).

 

I don't understand the reasoning behind criminilizing what is basically a victimless crime... Someone wants drugs, so they find someone who sells them. Period. There is no harm here, other than the harm to the person taking the drugs (and the user is obviously is unconcerned). I don't want drugs, so I don't buy them. Period. No one tries to talk me out of this position and no one tries to force them on me. People who want drugs will find a way to get them, regardless of the repercussions to self or society. There are no laws, no programs, no consequences you could invent that are strict enough to scare junkies away from their chosen addiction, be it drugs, alcohol, or nicotine. For example, I know that if they outlawed tobacco in Germany, I would be on the first train to Poland to load up on smokes!!

 

So, I'm off to have a few. Flame away, Britboarders!! Just try not to call me a moron, please. Thanks!

 

Cheers,

Rebecca

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The reason I've never tried 'hard' drugs is because my 7th grade health teacher scared the hell out of me...
I think that's an important point. Had the teacher not scared the hell out of you and instead said "It's legal, but dangerous. Try it if you want", your life (or indeed your death) may have been very different.

 

 

Bingo, eric. I often wonder what's wrong with simply legalizing drugs and then taxing the hell out of them.

I'm sorry, but if you think about it seriously you'll realise this is cloud-cuckoo land. For a start it's not a decision one or two countries could take in isolation. The relaxed attitude towards drugs in the Netherlands has a big impact on the drugs available in other European countries (without their consent) - imagine what legalisation would do. Legalising something sends out completely the wrong message to impressionable people, particularly children. The state does have a duty of care for the more vulnerable in our society and it seems to me that legalising class A drugs is not the best way carry out that duty.

 

Although drugs being illegal is not ideal, it's probably the least worst option.

 

Jean-Pierre

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