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A rant about life in Frankfurt

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But they don't break into my house and steal my stereo to buy beer.

 

I never said that alcohol use/abuse doesn't have an effect on communities. My point is that pretending that there is no diference between herion and beer is, well, dumb.

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Sorry, but heroin and crack are a hell of a lot worse than beer

I see Northen Lass has beaten me to it. So I'll moreorless repeat her point.

 

Alcohol has a far greater negative influence on society than heroin or crack. Alcohol related deaths, crimes and accidents are far higher than herion or crack.

 

If drugs were legal you probably wouldn't have drug addicts breaking into your house.

 

Sorry I've got more to say. Got an urgent wedding to do. Back in a sec...

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Alcohol has a far greater negative influence on society than heroin or crack. Alcohol related deaths, crimes and accidents are far higher than herion or crack.

Only because the number of people who drink alcohol is far higher. If the same number of people who drink alcohol also used herion or crack, I dare say our species would not last more than a couple more generations.

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If drugs were legal you probably wouldn't have drug addicts breaking into your house.

You would, because they still need to get the cash to be able to buy the drugs ...

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ditto far-lands.

 

The point is not that herion is so expensive that you have to steal my stereo to afford it. On the contrary, herion, speed and crack are depressingly cheap. The point is that if you use these substances you find it rather difficult to hold down a regular job to support your habit. You then have to find 'alternative' means of financing your addiction. This is regardless of the drugs' legality and is what I mean by 'effects on society'.

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Oh, I do like a good wedding.

 

Anyway where were we? Ah yes...

 

I read somewhere that it's very seldom that some dies only with herion in their system. Mostly it's a mixture of drugs including high levels of alcohol.

 

By making herion legal you would take drugs out of the hands of the drug dealer. (Who are the real cunts as the bishop would say.) Most deaths from herion occur due to infected needles, impurities and overdoses etc. These could be easily avoided.

 

You could set the price of herion so you wouldn't have to steal Ami's stereo to pay for your habit. You could have a regular job which can pay for your drug use. Of course, you'd need strict controls on the sale of it.

 

Above of all, educaction is the most important thing. Tell the kids the truth about drugs. Tell them what will happen to them if they take drugs. If you say "take ecstasy and you'll die" it's not the truth and the kids won't believe you. A lot of kids take ecstasy now and you have to let them know the truth about the drug, so they can better protect themselves. If my children do take ecstasy, when they are older and free to make their own decisions. I hope they will be informed about the dangers and can buy the drug from a safe source. And not from the drug dealing scum we have at the moment.

 

I agree that herion and crack are more dangerous than beer. The question is, is making them illegal an effective way to combat the use of them. The answer quite clearly is no.

 

Please note it's herOIn :D

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I agree with 90% of what you're writing, Vicar. What I don't agree with is the fantasy that if you only legalise these very dangerous drugs we will be living in a wonderland.

 

How, may I ask, is the addict who today is unable to hold down a regular job because he is too strung out going to do so simply because his habit is now legal? Go check out the 'Junkie Park' in Zürich or the seedier parts of Amsterdam and test that theory out. I know herion is not legal in those places, but it might as well be.

 

You're dead right about education, though. I was taught that if I smoked a joint it was just a matter of time until I was peeling myself because on my bad acid trip I thought that I had become an orange. I'm not making this up, our teacher actually told us this.

 

As for most deaths being from secondary effects, what do I care what the junkie actually dies from? My issue is not what someone does to himself, rather the effect of that person's actions on the rest of us. Does he die from a contaminated needle or an overdose? Who gives a shit. I want my stereo back.

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Of course, you'd need strict controls on the sale of it.

There already are strict controls - so strict that it's illegal.

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Next time you want a drink, try some herion instead. Then, after a few times, see if you can stop taking it as easily as you can stop having a drink.

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Well, obviously I am dumb to  ...because I don't see the difference...the end result of both addictions is the same.

Really? Seriously? You don't see the difference? Let me try to explain it:

 

I will drink a glass of wine with dinner tonight. This will not have an effect on my family, society, my work, anything. I and the vast majority of people who consume alcohol are able to contol our consumption. The same cannot be said for drugs like speed. The end result is not the same.

 

On occasion I drink a little more than I probably should. The result is that I don't feel too great the next day and I take it easy. This is true not only of me but of, again, the vast majority of people who consume alcohol. Again, the same cannot be said for drugs like heroin. The end result is not the same.

 

I, like most people who drink alcohol, do not spend most of my time trying to figure out where my next beer will come from. Again, the same cannot be said for drugs like crack. The end result is not the same.

 

For the alcoholic who destroys his family and ends up in the gutter there may not be much of a difference to using heroin, and in that case the end result is the same, but for all of us who are able to drink alcohol responsibly, the difference is huge.

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You don't see the difference? Let me try to explain it:
You're all heart

 

However, I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Let me try to explain:

 

 

the end result of both addictions is the same

Just because one addiction takes longer to get a hold than the other doesn't make the end result any less devastating, and I was talking about the overall long term result.

 

And I don't agree that the vast majority of people can control their drinking...I would say a vast majority think they can.

 

Have you ever bothered delving into the amount of drink related incidents. Drink driving, domestic violence, neglected children, abused children, the list is bloody endless...and a lot of the time these incidents are caused by people thinking they are in control of their drinking.

 

So when old Joe Bloggs has a little more to drink one night than he should have and climbs in to his car to drive the next morning still over the limit and kills little Johnny on his way to school...I take it he's in control is he...and have u any idea how common that actually is!!!

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I'll quote my previous post:

 

 

Only because the number of people who drink alcohol is far higher. If the same number of people who drink alcohol also used heroin or crack, I dare say our species would not last more than a couple more generations.

Of course there are far more drink related social ills, the number of people who drink alcohol eclipses that of those who unject heroin.

 

The point is that the proportion of people who use heroin that cause major social problems is far higher than the proportion of people who drink that are a menace to society. You're right, there are a number of alcoholics who neglect their children, but I'll go out on a limb and guess that the proportion of heroin addicts who neglect their children is rather a lot higher.

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ALCOHOL abuse is crippling the health service with more than 300,000 people flooding accident and emergency departments each year following drink-related incidents.With one in four of all A&E admissions drink-related, a leading consultant has warned that alcohol misuse is the biggest problem facing the health system.

 

It is estimated that drink costs the country over €2bn annually. This figure includes healthcare, road accidents, alcohol-related crime and lost productivity.

 

Dr Chris Luke of Cork University Hospital says hospitals are struggling to cope with the huge increase in alcohol-related illness and injuries.

 

"More than 80% of patients attending A&E departments after midnight on a Saturday can be intoxicated, while up to three-quarters of assaults, over half of all serious road crashes, and nearly half of all cases of domestic violence against females are alcohol-related," Dr Luke said.

 

"The healthcare system is on its knees from lifestyle abuse and lack of beds."

 

Dr Luke said emergency departments have to deal with people suffering from acute intoxication, chronic alcohol misuse, withdrawal symptoms and complications such as blood pressure and liver failure. They also have to treat third-party victims of drunken violence.

And thats only in Ireland...my apologies to the Irish here...but it's all I could find in such short notice :D

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Let's see what these numbers tell us. I'm going to make some guesses. If you disagree with my numbers, go ahead and change them and see how much it affects the conclusions.

 

What is the population of Ireland? about 5 million?

 

That gives us an adult population of let's say 4 million.

 

Of that 4 million how many consume alcohol? I'm tempted to say damn near all of them, but I'll go with 3.5 million.

 

So we have 300,000 hospital visits annually, but I'm guessing that the vast majority of those are repeat visits. Let's say we're talking about 150,000 people here, although I'm inclinded to say that the number is smaller than that.

 

So, we have 150,000 people out of 3.5 million who consume alcohol. That's about 4%.

 

Go ahead and adjust those numbers as you see fit. I'm only guessing here, but I'm pretty sure the percentage of heroin, speed and crack users who put a strain on Ireland's public services is far higher.

 

I never wrote that alcohol use/abuse is without its social ills. What I wrote is that to claim that it is 'as bad' as heroin is absurd.

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Before I comment can you also then get me the figures of the people that take speed, cocaine, weed, crack, heroine etc that don't become addicted just to make it fair.

 

I am saying once you are addicted to whatever the hell it is...drink or drugs the result is the same.

 

There are probably a lot more people then u think that take drugs but don't get addicted...but obviously its not common knowledge because it's illegal. Your mates might say "oh I had a great pint last night" but they aren't going to say "Oh I had a great line last night are they".

 

 

What I wrote is that to claim that it is 'as bad' as heroin is absurd.

Err...no you didn't... the words "dumb" and "moron" came into what you actually said.

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Before I comment can you also then get me the figures of the people that take speed, cocaine, weed, crack, heroine etc that don't become addicted just to make it fair.
No. I can't. You can use this fact to rubbish my argument, but until the Britboard wants to pay me as a research assistant, I'm afraid I don't have time to look up those figures now.

 

 

Your mates might say "oh I had a great pint last night" but they aren't going to say "Oh I had a great line last night are they".

Fair point, but I'm pretty sure my mates aren't using heroin.

 

 

Err...no you didn't... the words "dumb" and "moron" came into what you actually said.

Yes, as in it is dumb to say that beer is as bad as heroin. And I stand by that. That is a dumb statement. Patently so. I also wrote that one looks like a moron when making such a comment. How does that conflict with my writing "What I wrote is that to claim that it is 'as bad' as heroin is absurd." Looks pretty consistent to me.

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No. I can't. You can use this fact to rubbish my argument, but until the Britboard wants to pay me as a research assistant, I'm afraid I don't have time to look up those figures now.

My apologies I presumed you knew everything there was to know and that you had already researched the subject.

 

I'm not trying to rubbish your argument I'm just putting another view across...if that makes me dumb or a moron...then so be it.

 

Saying a statement is absurd is a lot different that calling someone a moron for saying it...is it not?

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Andrea, I never claimed to know everything about the subject. I was only expressing a view that I don't find terribly controversial: that beer is not as bad as heroin.

 

I also never called you dumb or a moron. In fact, those words appear in my posts before you ever posted on the subject. Even then, I wrote that it is a dumb argument to say that beer is as bad as heroin and that such an argument makes one look like a moron. Those comments were made in the abstract as a response to an article that the Vicar posted and were never directed at anyone, and certainly not anyone who had as of that time not even posted. However, if anyone finds those comments offensive, I apologize nevertheless.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I happen to think that it is an opinion that is absurd, to use your prefered jargon.

 

Back to the issue at hand, I don't know if you have children, but if you do (and if you don't you can just pretend), what would concern you more coming from their mouths: 'Mom, I had a pint last night' or 'Mom, I shot up last night'?

 

Honestly now, which would you find more disturbing?

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