Rental puzzle

20 posts in this topic

I would be glad to receive your comments about something.
 
For some time I've been renting accommodation (part of the owner's house) paying monthly in advance, and will soon be leaving. I wanted to stay one extra night after the end of the month (31st December), leaving on the morning of the second day of the following month, i.e. 2nd January 2019 in my case on this occasion.
 
I've got through life so far, by no means a short one and having lived in various parts of the world in rented property, on the understanding that a month's rent covers accommodation for however many nights there are in a particular month. (Even though the number of days in a month varies, one normally pays a fixed monthly amount; the shorter and the longer months 'average out'). For example, one arranges to stay somewhere for three months, Jan, Feb and March. One moves in on January 1st and spends one's first night in the property on that night, January 1st. One has paid for, or is paying for - I've always believed - 31 days/nights in Jan, 28 in Feb (none-leap year) and 31 in March. One moves out on the morning of April 1st (or possibly later, in the afternoon, if the landlord doesn't mind). If by mutual agreement one were to stay an extra month, April, and pay for that, the rent would cover 30 more days/nights.
 
However, according to my landlord, my long-held assumption has always been wrong (which could of course be the case).
 
He sent me the normal bill for December and - in order for me to move out on the morning of January 2nd - a bill for two nights more.
 
After I queried this, he wrote " ...with regards to a normal monthly rent, If you rent a flat for a month you have to leave on the last day, not on the first of the next".
 
In other words, were one to stay somewhere for, say, the three month period I mention above, moving out on April 1st, one should expect to pay for three months + one extra day. Or, presumably, if for a 31-day month, then for 32 days/nights.
 
I'm interested in hearing your comments.
 
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is how it works. AFAIK, the landlord could charge for an extra month if you aren't out in time. Count yourself lucky.

 

Some landlords would just let it fly if you have been a good renter and nobody else was scheduled to move in on those 2 days.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's yours for December to do what you like with. Anything extra is negotiable. It's pedantic to ask for two days rent after what was presumably months, but likewise to contest it, if you intend to be there.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, popotla said:
For example, one arranges to stay somewhere for three months, Jan, Feb and March. One moves in on January 1st and spends one's first night in the property on that night, January 1st. One has paid for, or is paying for - I've always believed - 31 days/nights in Jan, 28 in Feb (none-leap year) and 31 in March. One moves out on the morning of April 1st (or possibly later, in the afternoon, if the landlord doesn't mind). If by mutual agreement one were to stay an extra month, April, and pay for that, the rent would cover 30 more days/nights.
 

 

 

If you were to consider each month as being 30 days you would still only be paying till 23:59 on 31.3 in your example (31 days in January and March plus 28 days in February is 90 days)

 

But a month is a month - if you pay for February you are paying for 28 days, if you pay for January you are paying for 31

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that is how it works. AFAIK, the landlord could charge for an extra month if you aren't out in time. Count yourself lucky.

 

OK, LUCKY ME!

 

But a month is a month - if you pay for February you are paying for 28 days, if you pay for January you are paying for 31.

 

Days not nights. Thirty-one nights wanted? Pay for 32 days.

 

I haven't yet stayed in a hotel in Germany. Perhaps they go by nights rather than days.

 

I've spent a lifetime renting in various parts of the world. Should have guessed that Germany would be different. Silly me. Anyway will soon be off to somewhere a bit warmer (far colder weather, but warmer).

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, popotla said:

Yes, that is how it works. AFAIK, the landlord could charge for an extra month if you aren't out in time. Count yourself lucky.

 

OK, LUCKY ME!

 

But a month is a month - if you pay for February you are paying for 28 days, if you pay for January you are paying for 31.

 

Days not nights. Thirty-one nights wanted? Pay for 32 days.

 

I haven't yet stayed in a hotel in Germany. Perhaps they go by nights rather than days.

 

I've spent a lifetime renting in various parts of the world. Should have guessed that Germany would be different. Silly me. Anyway will soon be off to somewhere a bit warmer (far colder weather, but warmer).

 

 

OK,  let us know what happens when you check into a hotel for 2 nights. Then say you want another 1-2 nights stay, but do not feel you should pay;)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi RedMidge.

 

You missed the point. If I check into a hotel for two nights then want to stay another one or two nights, obviously I pay for another one-two nights. Too obvious for you to have bothered to raise the point.

 

That thirty-one nights in a rented room/apartment/house etc. requires payment for 32 nights (uniquely in Germany, and uniquely on this occasion, in my experience, which is obviously limited as I'm unlikely to have rented in 186 countries or whatever it is) is another matter, one that's obviously different. If I move in somewhere on 1st Jan, paying a month's rent, then I don't expect to be asked - or expected - to move out on January 31st, after the night of the 30th, after 30 nights.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I think YOU missed the point, and that is:

 

in German one rents accommodation on a monthly basis.

 

Thus, if you have rented until the end of December, your landlord could well anticipate a new tenant to be able to move in on the first of January.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, popotla said:

 If I move in somewhere on 1st Jan, paying a month's rent, then I don't expect to be asked - or expected - to move out on January 31st, after the night of the 30th, after 30 nights.


Has this way of thinking gotten you far in life?  Most like not.

If a contract was for one year from Jan - Dec, this means that as of 00:00 on 01.01, you technically could move in.  As of 23:59 on 31.12, you need to move out. 

To use your odd example above and means of thought.  You could not have moved in on 1 Jan into your example new flat if someone with your frame of mind was living there, because they feel they have the right to stay until the 1 Jan even though their contract ended on 31.12.  Get it?

I too have lived all over the world in numerous countries and have never been told that I could stay an extra day.  Not once.  When a contract ends it ends.  Period.

You must really hate Februaries where you lose two nights.  Why not take the landlord to court and sue him for your painful loss.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, robinson100 said:

in German one rents accommodation on a monthly basis.

 

Exactly.   This is in the Basic German Law (BGB).  What other countries do is completely irrelevant.   Of course, one could try to negotiate an extra night or two - but not an entitlement.

 

Quote

§ 573 c Abs. 1 Satz 1 BGB: „Die Kündigung ist spätestens am dritten Werktag eines Kalendermonats zum Ablauf des übernächsten Monats zulässig.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are renting month to month so the time unit is one month and not weeks, days or something else.  If you wanted to pay daily or weekly rates, you could find some who offer that but it will most likely be more expensive than renting month to month.

 

Sure the landlord could let you stay for 2 more days for free, for a daily fee or whatever but they don't have to.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has this way of thinking gotten you far in life?  Most like not.

 

Yes, far.

 

It was reading Toytown, by the way, that led me to ask "Is this the way that foreigners in Germany talk to each other when they're face to face?"

 

I too have lived all over the world in numerous countries and have never been told that I could stay an extra day.  Not once.  When a contract ends it ends.  Period.

 

I don't see it as "an extra day", rather a case of staying (in a 31-day month) for 31 nights.

 

You must really hate Februaries where you lose two nights.  Why not take the landlord to court and sue him for your painful loss.

 

Yes, for sure, It was Toytown that taught me that all one needs to post on a forum is well .. a finger ... or anything to press some keys. [I asked myself "Is this the way that these people talk to each other when they're face to face?"]

 

On 12/6/2018, 8:51:10, Kommentarlos said:

 

 

Why?  Would you expect the same in London or New York that they offer staff who speak German?

 

This by a guy who wasn't or isn't aware, apparently, that English is something of an international language (or just wanted to make a "smart" remark).

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Britain they say per calendar month. I would take the comments on the chin mate because yours is really a shocking question and philosophy. 

Bye.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't you grace somewhere else with your presence, McDee?  Somewhere you're less easily 'shocked' or you can ask what "philosophy" actually means?

 

"Mate"? No thanks.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that some of the responses come across as condescending and that can be frustrating, but now you’re coming across as a right twat. 

 

Take three deep breaths, accept the information you have received and deal with the situation as you see fit. 

 

If you don’t agree with what you have been told, fight it. It won’t serve any purpose to alienate the people trying to help you though. You never know when you may need them again. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, popotla said:

That thirty-one nights in a rented room/apartment/house etc. requires payment for 32 nights (uniquely in Germany,

Can you name 1 country where this would be different?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5.12.2018, 11:39:32, popotla said:

He sent me the normal bill for December and - in order for me to move out on the morning of January 2nd - a bill for two nights more.

 

I think he has given you exactly what you want and need - by staying into January, even by a day, you are in to a new month. If he were a Handwerker, it would be totally normal to charge for the entire hour you only use 6 minutes of (heating technician last year) so in this case, the whole month's rent.

 

Whilst I get that it would have been nice to get the extra time for free, he is charging for it, and c'est la vie - his decision, he is not wrong, so you will have to pay up, however it feels. It will presumably be cheaper than any alternative, so I would be hoping he doesn't get a Nachmieter who needs to move in at 00:01 on January 1st otherwise things will get very interesting.... 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in landlord's interest to charge because - aside from it being entirely reasonable to ask for the money -  contracts also need that thing called "consideration": something to flow between both parties. In this case, the asset from the landlord and the money from the person using it.  If the tenant stops paying on 31 Dec, there no longer is any.   

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jeba said:

Can you name 1 country where this would be different?

 

Hamburg ;)

 

In Hamburg, if your rental contract ends on 31.12 you have to move out by noon on 2.1

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now