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Moving from the UK to this region for a job offer - seeking advise on this offer and the Ulm rental market.

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Hi all,

 

newly registered to the forum and looking for some advise on a few things as i have been offered a job in the area (my background - Masters in Engineering, 4 years+ experience, 26 years old, single).

 

Has anyone got any resources on how to determine if the offer that i have been given (not final) is competitive. The offer is circa 68k euro, 12k bonus, company car or allowance, furnished flat (6 months), German lessons and relocation package.

 

Are there any loopholes or dangers that i need to be aware of? any suggestions on negotiating if this is a low offer (glassdoor indicates that it is slightly lower than the average for the job title in germany) however i think the job title has been changed to allow me access to the car as an added benefit instead of a pay increase...Is there anything i should be aware of or ask for in relation to this benefit?

 

How easy is it find a furnished flat in Ulm or the surrounding area and what should i expect to pay? I dont think i will be living pay check to pay check but i would like to save and enjoy a few holidays or return home occasionally - is this enough? I currently live in a 2 bed furnished flat that is on the better side of average i would say so would be looking for something comparable...

 

Sorry if this is long winded but im hoping to get some help!

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4 hours ago, isaleem said:

Has anyone got any resources on how to determine if the offer that i have been given (not final) is competitive.

 

Welcome to Toytown (TT) @isaleem :)

 

There are several online resouces in Germany you could try albeit you may have some linguistical navigation issues to overcome. You can put their page url into www.translate-google.de for fast but clunky or copy paste up to ~450 words  into www.deepl.com for fast and smooth results.

 

You could try putting 'Was verdienen Ingenieurinnen und Ingenieure im Ulm?' into www.google.de to get an overview of some of those resources or just check these links...

Lohnspiegel.de - Lohn- und Gehalts- Check

Payscale.com: Systems Administrator Salary (Germany) < example - navigate from there to your hearts delight

A bit like glassdoor > http://www.kununu.com/de

 

You may be right about the car being dependent on job title but, unless your job is 'on the road' it definitely represents a form of income in kind to the German taxman.

 

To my eye wrt your age and experience your package offer looks pretty good, but my eye is from a different generation and I'm not an engineer.

 

Do be aware that German employment contracts almost always include a 6 month probationary period during which either party can terminate them at short notice (usually, but not always, 30 days) without statutory obligation to show cause, reason or grounds.

 

Albeit they are beginning to appear more often, furnished flats are not traditionally common in Germany - maybe 5 - 15% of the market depending on the region. Traditionally you'd need to negotiate with an outgoing tenant on whether and for how much they'll sell you their fitted kitchen before going shopping for light fittings to attach to the bare wires in the ceilings. :D

 

There's a very informative thread with tips and advise on typical general rental contract issues pinned in the TT Legal forum and lots more in the TT wiki (>top blue band> 'More>>left blue bnd>Wiki> scroll to text>click applicable word/s).

 

I don't know the Ulm market but I'm sure there are quite a few TTers who do so I edited your topic title to attract their attention.

 

2B

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I highly recommend that you try to negotiate that they pay for a Tax advisor in Germany for at least the first year tax return you need to do.  If possible, then you might be able to get them to pay also for one for the UK for you last year there (if you need this).

 

Also see if they would pay the estate agent fees, when you do rent your own place for the first time.

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Hi Isaleem. Can you tell us more specifically which scientific area you will work in? Because I could not understand. Civil - Structural Engineering, Software Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Data Science or what else? And what is your background in maths, programming languages and linux os? And you said master's of engineering, so totally 4 or 5 or 6 years of study? In some cases you should expect much more salary than payscale or glassdoor.

As I understand, there will be need to learn German language and to have a car, so your work will not be totally on a computer (like mine). I work as data scientist in Mannheim and English is 100% enough in all respects (but I am learning German just for myself), and I do not need any car at all. So maybe in your case, there will be need to visit and talk to German customers preferring German language.

In any case, the salaries of engineers and scientists in Germany and Switzerland, start from 30.000 euros and sometimes can get to 300.000 euros. It all depends on which scientific area you work in, but not so much on your age or on your past background.

Finally, don't forget the numbeo for comparing your current city with Ulm: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

 

PS: I compared Mannheim and Stuttgart with Ulm, and Ulm looks like kinda expensive.

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Hi nwogeorge

 

My field is medical engineering and I've got 4 year's of studying and 5 years in the industry.  

 

There will be around 15/20% travel around Europe however they added the car despite it's terms to improve the package they could offer.

 

I'm still not sure how to see this salary as the take home after tax is not as much as I had imagined however they are adament it is an exceptional offer and that it something they have asked to ensure they get me to join.

 

Maybe I'm being too demanding but I'm still not convinced it is a) enough to live comfortably B) an acceptable rate for a senior management role within the company.

 

Any ideas, I like the company and I like the sound of the role. I would like to see what others thoughts are... 

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Dont know Ulm but all of what you are saying is probably generally pretty accurate for popular German business / academic locales like that.   It's OK but not great money for someone with a few years' experience, but it's not "senior manager" level pay, for sure.

 

Taxes are quite high here and so that impacts your net (especially if unmarried and childfree) and the cost of living's gone up recent times because housing is more expensive, and as a thriving business and academic centre,  Ulm is in demand.   I posted Germany's top 10 cities rankings to the Ingolstadt thread: Ulm is on it too. 

 

On the other hand, most such places you might want to practice your profession probably have that sort of mix now.    And what exactly do you see yourself spending your cash on while establishing a mid-level career?  Decent amount for rent...and then? (That was the time I did not spend money, coud just stack it up).

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Hi isaleem.

 

First of all, I ain't understood yet how open or closed is your job - scientific area. As I said, I work as data scientist, being 100% open job. This means, that there is no need for any license or something similar to work. If there is an agreement between me and an employer, that is enough. No one cares about any license here.

 

But in other engineering areas or medical fields, the situation becomes more complicated with more bureaucracy and officialism to be needed. The salary increases as many official papers as you can have. So to answer in your question, I don't know what official papers and license you have, and which of them your company wants or will want in the future, maybe for increasing your salary or your position.

 

About the salary itself, 68.000 euros for a young single person means something like 3200 euros per month net income. For renting you will need maximum 1000 euros in the kinda expensive city of Ulm (in Mannheim you can find 700 euros good apartment 50-60 square meters with 2 bedrooms). So, this means you will have 2200 euros to spend for everything else except renting. For me being single that is extremely enough. For you I don't know. For example if you eat every day in restaurant, it will be 700-800 euros every month.

About the position and your background-experience, I could say that the salary is kinda good. If I was in your position I would accept it, and after 1 year living in Germany I would do a review about everything. But at the moment I would accept it.

Finally, bear in mind that as the German gross annual income increases geometrically or exponentially, it does not happen the same with the month net income. Taxes are very high. So if you hear that someone has annual gross income 80k or 100k, don't think that he has much more net month income than you. After marriage the situation changes. Unfortunately there is a kinda racism against single young man.

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1 hour ago, nwogeorge said:

. After marriage the situation changes. Unfortunately there is a kinda racism against single young man.

 

Hmm, a single young woman pays exactly as much taxes as a single young man. And if you're marrying someone with an income equal to yours or (God forbid?) higher than yours your tax load stays exactly the same or increases.

 

I do think your definition of racism needs adjusting.

 

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1 hour ago, nwogeorge said:

About the salary itself, 68.000 euros for a young single person

 

On 11/28/2018, 11:49:12, isaleem said:

The offer is circa 68k euro, 12k bonus

 

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@ mtbiking. I really don't know. Maybe you are right.


@ fraufruit. I always ignore anything else except the major salary. They can say many things, like bonus, car, helicopter, pool, shares of company, German lessons, gym, parties, free food etc, but for me, they don't matter. I always care about the major salary. To be more specific, at the moment, I care about the first of the four digits of the money i receive every month in my bank account. If he will take 12k bonus, it will be of course much better. But in my case, always I say: I want the highest possible salary without something else.

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17 minutes ago, nwogeorge said:

@ mtbiking. I really don't know. Maybe you are right.

 

Maybe? Maybe you shouldn't be spreading erroneous information that somehow implies that the german tax code is prejudiced against men.

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@ fraufruit. I mean, that some things are overpriced by some companies when they try to hire you, trying to avoid higher major salary.

 

@mtbiking, yes there is racism against men in western well developed countries, including Germany. That is my opinion, is there a problem? And as the salary increases, also the gender gap increases, implying indirect racism against men, especially well educated men. But we are totally offtopic.

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18 minutes ago, nwogeorge said:

yes there is racism against men 

Men are not a race. Learn some biology. Might not be too late to become one of those well-educated men.

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13 minutes ago, nwogeorge said:

@ fraufruit. I mean, that some things are overpriced by some companies when they try to hire you, trying to avoid higher major salary.

 

@mtbiking, yes there is racism against men in western well developed countries, including Germany. That is my opinion, is there a problem? And as the salary increases, also the gender gap increases, implying indirect racism against men, especially well educated men. But we are totally offtopic.

 

It's entirely surprising to know that you are single.

 

.. I'm actually astounded that you manage to reference the gender pay gap -by definition less pay for women than for men with equal education and work- and at the same time say that societies discriminate against men.

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