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Looking for Versicherungsberater

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I am a UK citizen who will be moving to Munich in mid-March 2019 (i.e. just before Brexit). I do not know yet whether I will be employed in a contract job or self-employed.  In either case, it's my understanding from various Toytown threads that in order to get into public health insurance, because I am over 55, I need to prove I have been living in the UK for 12 months and 1 day.  By next March I will have been living in the UK for 15 months, so the only question is, what proof I need to provide of this.  I would like to hire a versicherungsberater to help me through the process.  I will be visiting Munich next month, on Dec 20th and 21st, and would like to meet this person to discuss my situation, especially to find out what documents I need to bring with me when I arrive in March.  Is there a versicherungsberater in Munich, please, who would be willing to take my case on, and could meet me on December 20 or 21?  

 

Additional information:  I had been living in the USA prior to December 2017, when I moved back to the UK.  By March of 2019 I will have been here in the UK for 15 months, safely over the required time of 12 months and 1 day.  However, the proofs I have do not all go back that far.  I registered with a GP in the UK as soon as I arrived, in December 2017, and have a letter stating that.  I also have bank statements from December 2017.  However, my other proofs of residency (rental contract, utility bills, employment contract, national insurance contributions) did not start until March, because I did not find a flat and a job immediately upon arriving in the UK.  (I stayed with family members during the first couple of months).  It seems to me that it's risky to assume that the date on the GP letter should be the start point for the 12 months and 1 day.  I have a rental contract for a flat and utility bills dated from March 5, 2018, so I'm working on the assumption that, to be safe, I shouldn't try to move to Germany until mid-March.  But I don't know if there are other bureaucratic obstacles that I have no way to predict, which is why I need professional assistance.  

 

Please could you contact me if you are a versicherungsberater in Munich who would be willing to work with me, and could meet me on the 20th or 21st of December.  

 

Thank you very much.  

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If there is any such requirement, I think it is more exact to say you have to prove you've been participating in the relevant statutory UK systems for that period (or whatever it is)?  Simply living in the UK is not enough.

 

Quote

  I have a rental contract for a flat and utility bills dated from March 5, 2018, so I'm working on the assumption that, to be safe, I shouldn't try to move to Germany until mid-March.  But I don't know if there are other bureaucratic obstacles that I have no way to predict, which is why I need professional assistance.  

 

A lot of your options will of course depend on whether a transition deal is agreed on Brexit or not.  Without one (and there is not one as I write) then your ideas regarding employment may likely also face more barriers.  

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OP- Have you checked the UK Gov. website on moving to/living in Germany?  They have info on Health requirements, and maybe you need to contact the NHS?

Of course, none of us know exactly what will happen  post Brexit!!  

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1 hour ago, swimmer said:

If there is any such requirement, I think it is more exact to say you have to prove you've been participating in the relevant statutory UK systems for that period (or whatever it is)?  Simply living in the UK is not enough.

Well I've been registered with an NHS doctor since December, I've paying into the NHS (via payroll-deducted national insurance contributions) and I've been going to doctor's appointments, so that should count as 'participating in' the system, I would hope?  

1 hour ago, swimmer said:

 

A lot of your options will of course depend on whether a transition deal is agreed on Brexit or not.  Without one (and there is not one as I write) then your ideas regarding employment may likely also face more barriers.  

Yes ... thus my interest in getting this all sorted out by early/mid March, and not having some last-minute obstacle present itself which I could have prevented, had I known about it sooner ...

 

Thank you for your reply :)  

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1 hour ago, RedMidge said:

OP- Have you checked the UK Gov. website on moving to/living in Germany?  They have info on Health requirements, and maybe you need to contact the NHS?

Of course, none of us know exactly what will happen  post Brexit!!  

Thanks for your answer RedMidge.  I have checked out the UK government information about moving to Germany, but I still need professional help because of my specific situation.  

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Hello again, saritablogs!

https://www.bvvb.de/beratersuche/

For those who are unaware: Versicherungsberater is a " protected " profession in Germany - not to be confused with the run of the mill colloquially-used Versicherungsberater (ie I know a bloke down the pub who flogs insurance." )

They do NOT sell insurance but give objective legal advice and have a power of attorney status.

 

Good luck! I hope you make it. Of course, the issue remains..would a German Versicherungsberater necessarily know about the rules for foreigners over 55 getting into German public health insurance for the first time and be aware of the UK side of things ? I hope so.

 

PS: you write you registered with an NHS doc in December 2017. If you can get a short letter from the doc stating that and have been there since the day before registering in Germany, you should be fine. The UK doc will be surprised you want such a letter but if you gently explain it is required under German law, you should be ok.

 

Disclaimer ( as this thread is not on the Finance thread ):

I´m an independent , currently one-eyed , independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser on Toytown.

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2 hours ago, john g. said:

Hello again, saritablogs!

https://www.bvvb.de/beratersuche/

For those who are unaware: Versicherungsberater is a " protected " profession in Germany - not to be confused with the run of the mill colloquially-used Versicherungsberater (ie I know a bloke down the pub who flogs insurance." )

They do NOT sell insurance but give objective legal advice and have a power of attorney status.

 

Good luck! I hope you make it. Of course, the issue remains..would a German Versicherungsberater necessarily know about the rules for foreigners over 55 getting into German public health insurance for the first time and be aware of the UK side of things ? I hope so.

 

PS: you write you registered with an NHS doc in December 2017. If you can get a short letter from the doc stating that and have been there since the day before registering in Germany, you should be fine. The UK doc will be surprised you want such a letter but if you gently explain it is required under German law, you should be ok.

 

Disclaimer ( as this thread is not on the Finance thread ):

I´m an independent , currently one-eyed , independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser on Toytown.

Hi again John!  I'm really sorry to hear about your eye .... and thanks for replying -- as you can see, I am trying to get my 'ducks in a row' before moving to Germany in March.  I wish you were in Munich -- I really need to find someone there who can help me. I had no idea a versicherungsberater was not a person who sells insurance -- see, I know practically nothing, which is why I'm so worried that I am going to overlook something important.  Yes, I can get a letter stating I've been registered with a GP in the UK since December 2017, but I've read on other threads that you also need proof of NI contributions, proof of residence such as rental contracts, utility bills, and employment contracts.  I have been collecting all of those things.  So ... we will see.  I hope your eye gets better soon ... all the best xx

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23 hours ago, saritablogs said:

Hi again John!  I'm really sorry to hear about your eye ... and thanks for replying -- as you can see, I am trying to get my 'ducks in a row' before moving to Germany in March.  I wish you were in Munich -- I really need to find someone there who can help me. I had no idea a versicherungsberater was not a person who sells insurance -- see, I know practically nothing, which is why I'm so worried that I am going to overlook something important.  Yes, I can get a letter stating I've been registered with a GP in the UK since December 2017, but I've read on other threads that you also need proof of NI contributions, proof of residence such as rental contracts, utility bills, and employment contracts.  I have been collecting all of those things.  So ... we will see.  I hope your eye gets better soon ... all the best xx

Who knows with Brexit? Who knows ..jeez, you say moving to March and that is maybe Brexit or not or transition period or not..who knows..

Even now, it´s not smooth with getting into German public health insurance...the 25 year olds, lovely that they are on the phone etc, get confused and don´t know even the current rules ( not surprisingly )...

My CURRENT opinion: proof you have been with a doc in the UK in the NHS till the day before you register in Germany! At least with TK. 

The other stuff...utility bills etc..only IF you can´t prove otherwise being in the NHS ie doc letter.

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There is a particular Berater advertising on here. I would put out a strong warning NOT to use him, under no circumstances. I am not sure whether he is for real or just sloppy whichever, he is not good news. Message me for details.

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If you are self employed: Techniker Krankenkasse is one of the more forthcoming KKs in Germany with regards to joining the GKVs in Germany. You will need proof that you were living in the UK over a period of time , in our case they accepted a Council Tax Bill with our names on it. You will need proof that you live in Germany, in our case the registration at the Town Hall (Bürgerbüro). You can register online at gov.uk and download a record of your NIC contributions and you can also request a formal statement from HMRC that you are entitled to NHS treatment. When people go and live within the EU then they currently can ask for an A1 or an S1 form from HMRC. Armed with that go and apply at TK in Hamburg for health insurance. You best bet is to go and get yourself an accountant and become registered either as a Kleinunternehmen or as a Professional or as a Künstler (artist). If you are the latter you are in luck: you can get health insurance through the Künstlersozialkasse. It is a lot cheaper than the GKVs (having said that the minimum contributions for start ups are going to be halved from January to about 180 Euros a month - as opposed to some 430 Euros at the moment!). If you ask me you would be much better off getting yourself a job (not a 450 Euro job!), part time, as an English teacher or something along those lines if that suits you. You would then be automatically insured in the GKV eliminating all the hassle. 

I gather you are British? During the transition period you will be fine, you will not need a visa or permission to stay. If the UK drops out of the EU without a deal then Germany has already stated that every British person living in Germany (and particularly those in employment) will not be facing major problems. There is even talk of an EU passport for Brits (currently being discussed in the EU Parliament). You should therefore make sure you move well before 29th March next year. If you have German parents or grand parents or if you are Jewish with German roots then I would advise to apply for a German passport. If you do that before the transition period ends you can keep your British nationality. Again, if they drop out on 29th March then you should have applied before that date - I would advise starting the process now. It is a lot cheaper than what the British charge (280 Euros as opposed to over £1350!).

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On 22/11/2018, 18:04:35, john g. said:
7 hours ago, Pulsimonium said:

If you are self employed: Techniker Krankenkasse is one of the more forthcoming KKs in Germany with regards to joining the GKVs in Germany. You will need proof that you were living in the UK over a period of time , in our case they accepted a Council Tax Bill with our names on it. You will need proof that you live in Germany, in our case the registration at the Town Hall (Bürgerbüro). You can register online at gov.uk and download a record of your NIC contributions and you can also request a formal statement from HMRC that you are entitled to NHS treatment. When people go and live within the EU then they currently can ask for an A1 or an S1 form from HMRC. Armed with that go and apply at TK in Hamburg for health insurance. You best bet is to go and get yourself an accountant and become registered either as a Kleinunternehmen or as a Professional or as a Künstler (artist). If you are the latter you are in luck: you can get health insurance through the Künstlersozialkasse. It is a lot cheaper than the GKVs (having said that the minimum contributions for start ups are going to be halved from January to about 180 Euros a month - as opposed to some 430 Euros at the moment!). If you ask me you would be much better off getting yourself a job (not a 450 Euro job!), part time, as an English teacher or something along those lines if that suits you. You would then be automatically insured in the GKV eliminating all the hassle. 

I gather you are British? During the transition period you will be fine, you will not need a visa or permission to stay. If the UK drops out of the EU without a deal then Germany has already stated that every British person living in Germany (and particularly those in employment) will not be facing major problems. There is even talk of an EU passport for Brits (currently being discussed in the EU Parliament). You should therefore make sure you move well before 29th March next year. 

Thank you so much for all this ... really helpful!  The last paragraph doesn't apply to me (no German parents/grandparents, not Jewish) but everything else definitely applies to me.  I am pretty much doing all the things you suggest, but it's a great relief to know it worked for you.  (And I will PM you re your first message).  You mentioned I should register before getting health insurance -- but .... I thought I had to have proof of health insurance before I could register?  Perhaps then the EHIC would work then as proof of insurance for registration purposes?  But ...  I thought the EHIC becomes invalid the minute you register in Germany .... so I guess I"d just have to go directly from registering to the TK and hope I don't fall and break a leg en route .... (!!!) 

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EU citizens don´t have to prove health insurance when they register,  saritablogs,  but you have to prove registration to get health insured!

 

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8 hours ago, Pulsimonium said:

If you ask me you would be much better off getting yourself a job (not a 450 Euro job!), part time, as an English teacher or something along those lines if that suits you. You would then be automatically insured in the GKV eliminating all the hassle. 

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to her since she's over 55:

She has to prove she came directly out of the NHS in order to get into German public health insurance, and as john g. already said, a letter from her GP will be sufficient for Techniker Krankenkasse: https://www.tk.de/en

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8 hours ago, Pulsimonium said:

If you are self employed: Techniker Krankenkasse is one of the more forthcoming KKs in Germany with regards to joining the GKVs in Germany. You will need proof that you were living in the UK over a period of time , in our case they accepted a Council Tax Bill with our names on it. You will need proof that you live in Germany, in our case the registration at the Town Hall (Bürgerbüro). You can register online at gov.uk and download a record of your NIC contributions and you can also request a formal statement from HMRC that you are entitled to NHS treatment. When people go and live within the EU then they currently can ask for an A1 or an S1 form from HMRC. Armed with that go and apply at TK in Hamburg for health insurance. You best bet is to go and get yourself an accountant and become registered either as a Kleinunternehmen or as a Professional or as a Künstler (artist). If you are the latter you are in luck: you can get health insurance through the Künstlersozialkasse. It is a lot cheaper than the GKVs (having said that the minimum contributions for start ups are going to be halved from January to about 180 Euros a month - as opposed to some 430 Euros at the moment!). If you ask me you would be much better off getting yourself a job (not a 450 Euro job!), part time, as an English teacher or something along those lines if that suits you. You would then be automatically insured in the GKV eliminating all the hassle. 

I gather you are British? During the transition period you will be fine, you will not need a visa or permission to stay. If the UK drops out of the EU without a deal then Germany has already stated that every British person living in Germany (and particularly those in employment) will not be facing major problems. There is even talk of an EU passport for Brits (currently being discussed in the EU Parliament). You should therefore make sure you move well before 29th March next year. If you have German parents or grand parents or if you are Jewish with German roots then I would advise to apply for a German passport. If you do that before the transition period ends you can keep your British nationality. Again, if they drop out on 29th March then you should have applied before that date - I would advise starting the process now. It is a lot cheaper than what the British charge (280 Euros as opposed to over £1350!).

Some useful points but why would registering as a Künstlerin help her? IF she is an artist, it can still take for ever to get clearance from the KSK and she would need an interim private insurance anyway...not so cheap as a 57 year old. And if rejected by the KSK: NO chance of getting into public insurance  because of having had private insurance as a pre-insurer!

She cannot get health insurance through the KSK - they are not health insurance providers!

 

She CAN apply- eg to TK- from the very beginning (best to start the process before leaving the UK and leaving only the Anmeldung to do before finishing it all off ). She does NOT have to be a Kleinunternehmerin, either. She can apply as someone " living off savings ." 180-190 euros a month.

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John G. with all due respect but you are wrong. You are automatically health insured in a German GKV if you are an employee. In fact, it is compulsory. I am 59 by the way...

 

KSK: she does not need an interim private insurance. She can use the EHIC. And what I meant is she can become a member of the KSK who would help her to get into a GKV. https://www.kuenstlersozialkasse.de/die-ksk/die-kuenstlersozialkasse.html (if you speak German).

 

You cannot apply with a GKV before leaving the UK, trust me, we (my husband and people from my peer group who are British) have been through this. Try the TK, they might make an exception but...And as far as living off savings is concerned.. well, I can tell you now that they will sift through your "savings" and demand you declare every nook and cranny. And if you have more than 12500 Euros in savings then you best forget about 180 - 190 Euros a month contribution. The paperwork to fill in and where you have to declare everything is 3 pages long. And by the way - I did mention that that the contributions drop in January 2019 to 180 a month for self-employed people, okay? You can apply now to pay less if you make less than some 2300 Euros a month so you do't have to pay 430 Euros... but you would have to hand in a Steuererklärung and they will ask for one by an accountant, doing it yourself won't cut the mustard.

 

And where did I say she HAS to be a Kleinunternehmer? I said Kleinunternehmer OR a Professional OR an artist. Please read before making comments. I was merely making suggestions based on our own experiences and that of my group of people brexiting to Germany (2500 in total - we cannot all be wrong now, can we?).

 

I am German by the way. It's just that I have lived in the UK for 28 years. I think I know a bit about how things work in Germany due to being self employed myself. 

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1 hour ago, PandaMunich said:

 

Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to her since she's over 55:

Wrong. If she is an employee she will be  insured, it is compulsory in Germany.

1 hour ago, PandaMunich said:

She has to prove she came directly out of the NHS in order to get into German public health insurance, and as john g. already said, a letter from her GP will be sufficient for Techniker Krankenkasse: https://www.tk.de/en

Wrong again. Depending on who you get as your Sachbearbeiter they could ask for a Council Tax Bill, confirmation from HMRC, your GP... or all three. They could even ask you to send them your Eurotunnel or flight or ferry ticket to prove that you are living in Germany and not just trying to get better health insurance and use the EHIC back in the UK. They did in our case and when I asked them why, that was their answer.

1 hour ago, PandaMunich said:

 

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Good evening, Pulsimonium!

Mutual respect, by the way!

Some points: people DO use the EHIC card but shouldn´t legally. That is reserved for visitors, students etc. The German system sees it differently..try getting into German public insurance as a voluntary member if you apply after three months after registering! Doesn´t work. Mostly.

Yes, ok. I know what you mean with the KSK but NO they cannot help you get into public insurance...that is up to the individual to sort it out themselves. ie pick and choose your public insurer.

 

Living off savings: did it the other week with a Brit couple in their fifties...ex college professors and in Germany now and it worked out fine---179 plus some cents per month at TK for both together. They just filled in the run of the mill form at TK. Didn´t have to prove anything else. Yep, three pages or so - but no bank statements etc. 

 

Yes, you CAN apply before moving to Germany...as long as you have an address of some kind in Germany on the forms. To finish it off: need Anmeldung, bank data.

 

You didn´t say she HAS to be a Kleinunternehmer or an artist etc but you recommended it!

 

28 years in the UK! I´m the other way around...c.30 years away! Things have changed in the German system and in the Brit system, ode:Pr? You may be self-employed..as I am...but the world of insurance is not interested in your or my personal lives. I doubt.

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10 minutes ago, Pulsimonium said:

Wrong. If she is an employee she will be  insured, it is compulsory in Germany.

Wrong again. Depending on who you get as your Sachbearbeiter they could ask for a Council Tax Bill, confirmation from HMRC, your GP... or all three. They could even ask you to send them your Eurotunnel or flight or ferry ticket to prove that you are living in Germany and not just trying to get better health insurance and use the EHIC back in the UK. They did in our case and when I asked them why, that was their answer.

 

I deal with 25 year old and lovely Sachbearbeiter every day eg at TK.. Always friendly but ask why this proof or that proof? And they are flummoxed! Yes, they can ask for all kinds of proof. But usually a doc letter is enough. 

By the way, Panda Munich is never wrong!:lol: Hang around this forum for a while and  you will understand that! They DO want to see your Anmeldung..God knows who asked you to show a Eurotunnel ticket! But I wouldn´t put it past a young bureaucrat!

They do not expect you to show you used an EHIC card in the UK! That is for tourists!

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Also if you are over 55 consider retiring if you can afford it. You can then ask the UK for an S1 form from HMRC (as mentioned above) and hand that in to the TK (for example). You will then be fully health insured in Germany but via the UK (i.e. the UK will reimburse the TK for your treatments and doctor's visits). You will also be insured in the German Pflegeversicherung (care insurance) alas a word of warning: if you become incapacitated and need a carer you cannot get Pflegegeld (aka a personal budget) under the S1 route.  All you get is Pflegesachdienstleistungen (aka you have to contract a care agency, you won't get money to pay for a carer or to give it to your spouse). You will also not receive Verhinderungspflege (aka someone to cover for your wife or husband or children if they look after you and if they have to have a break) just Kurzzeitpflege (meaning you have to go into a home temporarily) and that money won't last to pay a good care home for 2 weeks per year... The only hickup with the S1 route is, we do not know if there will be a reciprocal arrangement if the UK brexits. I have heard that the German and UK government already have something in place but nothing official as yet...

You may think now "what the hell has that got to do with the question"? But trust me - you will want to look into this as illness can hit you quicker than you think and you have to be prepared. I can only advise to get yourself a good care insurance. It may cost but you will be covered. One of the best things one can spend money on in my opinion. Either that or start saving into an EFT asap... 

And no, I am not an IFA. I just know because we have been through everything, we jumped through hoops, ripped our hair out and learned the hard way. But once you are in the system it all works out fine and is in fact far superior to anything the UK can offer.

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