Leaving Germany: when to de-register at KVR? leaving is earlier than the actual termination of contract

12 posts in this topic

Dear all,

I am posting this for your kind information or suggestion.

 

My situation is that I will leave Germany to the UK for a new job in February 2019.

My UK job start on February 15, 2019. For my job in Germany, I do have lots of holidays left to allow me to cover the entire February (specifically I work until 14 February and then register 14-day vacations and officially my contract will terminate March 1).

 

Now I start to deal with the departure, like to find the tenant to take over my rented apartment. About the apartment, since physically I will not be in Munich from February 15, and thus for saving money I would like to transfer the rental contract from the same date. So now I have a problem about the timing of de-registration for the sake of my salary.

 

For me, for sure I would like to receive the salary of the entire February 2019. In this case,

1. do I have to keep my registration at KVR til the end of February in order to receive the entire salary? 

 

2. If I transfer my rental contract (February 15, 2019) and shall I de-register myself at KVR at the same time? or shall I go to KVR and say I will de-register at March 1 for a 'lie'?

 

3. The new tenants most likely will go to KVR for registration a couple days after February 15, then KVR will know my lie as mentioned above [item 2]? in this case, shall KVR simply de-register me automatically? 

 

Clearly there is one secured way but not economic, I transfer my rental contract from March 1, and I pay all the bill for the apartment even when I actually already leave Germany. But I hope this is not the only way. 

 

Is there anyone who has/had the experience like my aforementioned situation? how shall I better deal with it in order to receive my entire February salary?

 

Thank you very much. Look forward to your kind reply. 

Best regards,

Peter

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I don't have an answer to your question but Wish you congratulations of the new job! Well done! 

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Welcome to Toytown (TT), @peterinmuc

 

On Donnerstag, 1. November 2018, peterinmuc said:

1. do I have to keep my registration at KVR til the end of February in order to receive the entire salary? 

 

1. No.

 

Data collected by the state in connection with statutory obligations to individual registration are subject to strict privacy controls, even between departments of local authorities. Employers have no right of access to such data.

 

Although there are immediate automatic exchanges of parts of each individuals' registration and deregistration data between up to 14 different branches of federal and state government the time which those branches may keep the data on file is strictly limited according to their legal needs.

 

See the BMG or Federal Registration Act for details.

 

Quote

2. If I transfer my rental contract (February 15, 2019) and shall I de-register myself at KVR at the same time? or shall I go to KVR and say I will de-register at March 1 for a 'lie'?

 

2. You must deregister as close as possible to the date you intend to leave Germany and in any case no later than 14 days after or earlier than 5 days before moving out of your final permanent address in Germany.

 

Whoever fails to provide in part or in full accurate information (in connection with the BMG or Federal Registration Act) whether by intent or neglect commits an offence for which they may be subjected to a fine of up to 1000 €

 

Source: Federal Act on Registration - Index (English)

BMG - Federal Act on Registration- Index (German)

 

To save anyone the trouble of posting about their never having heard of anyone being fined 1000 € for a registration offence I will mention the fact that the BMG first came into effect in November 2015 and it was made clear by federal and state ministers and their spokespeople during 2016 that, with the exception of cases involving serious criminal intent, there would be a staged introduction of gradually stiffer penalties after the new act had been in force for a few years and the federal office of statistics had gathered enough data to measure the effectivity of the soft touch approach.

 

Under the old state registration acts fines of 20 - 50 € were reportedly the general experience of those TTers who had failed to act within the time the law stipulated.

 

Quote

3. The new tenants most likely will go to KVR for registration a couple days after February 15, then KVR will know my lie as mentioned above [item 2]? in this case, shall KVR simply de-register me automatically? 

 

3. If this situation arises, yes.

 

Quote

Is there anyone who has/had the experience like my aforementioned situation? how shall I better deal with it in order to receive my entire February salary?

 

Hundreds of TTers every year do but, unfortunately, not many stay in touch after they've left Germany permanently.

 

If you are concerned about avoiding extra expenses then do be sure to check with your health insurers what evidence they will require from you of your having left Germany in order to stop charging you for the full monthly cost of your health insurance for March and beyond.

 

You should do a search of the Toytown Finance sub-forum for threads which cover that subject in detail. Go to Home>Forums>Germanthemes>Finance then, if you can't find a relevant topic title on the first 2 or 3 pages, put a couple of key words (like 'cancel health insurance' or 'cancel GKV' or 'cancel PKV' in the search box at the top right.

 

A list of TT advertisers for insurance will appear - use the 'Show results' button below to see links to posted references in various threads. Please do not start a new thread before looking for a topic thtread where your questions can be added first.

 

Likewise you need to make sure to provide your ARD-ZDF-Deutsche Rundfunk Rundfunkbeitrag collection office (BR?) with a copy of your deregistration (Abmeldebescheinigung) and possibly flight ticket before March or they will continue to draw their fees from your German bank account.

 

If you are planning on a possible return to work in Germany you should be equally concerned about making sure to have received an acceptable (by German HR standards) Arbeitszeugnis from your employer by the time of your departure from the firm.

 

HTH

 

2B

 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and none of the above purports to be legal advice. Only a qualified Rechtsanwalt or Jurist is entitled by law to provide legal advice in Germany.

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@2B_orNot2B

Thank you so much for your reply with detailed information.

Yes, I am extensively checking the posts on TTer and follow them to make the departure earlier :)

 

 

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Dear  2B_orNot2B and others,

 

I read almost all posts and I am still unclear about the following issues. Could you kindly help me out further? Thank you in advance.

 

Further to my above mentioned situation, now I am clear that I will do this to get my unused holidays paid; I physically leave and de-register myself from Munich/Germany on February 15, but I will report to HR to say I will end my job contract on March 8, 2019 to get all unused holidays paid out. [is this right way? and the only way? just for double check...]

 

Then I have questions on the Health Insurance, Child benefits, and tax declaration, pension contribution claim .

 

 

1. Health Insurance with TK

Shall I cancel my health insurance immediately on the departure date, February 15? if so, then will it affect my salary for the periods Feb 15-March 8 when I am still employed in Germany on the paper?

 

2. Child benefits

Currently I receive two types allowance:

(a) Children's Allowance - Kindergeld, and 

(b) Bavarian Family Allowance- Bayerisches Familiengeld

 

I came across previous posts on the termination of child benefits. It seems that as long as I get salary, then I have to pay the social contribution, which makes me eligible for the child benefits, right?

 

So when I should report to the responsible authority to end my child benefits? the exact de-registration day (Feb. 15) OR the end of my job contract with unused holidays (i.e., March 8)?

 

3. Tax declaration 

I have been working in Munich from August 2015. I have never filled a tax return. Now my colleagues advise me to make tax declaration before I leave.

Do I really have to make the tax declaration before my departure? Or I can just leave without bothering this tax declaration like what I did during these 3 years?

If so, how to proceed?  in my situation I already leave Germany in February and my last salary from Germany would be in March.

 

4. pension contribution claim

I am from non-EU and work in Germany less than 5 years. So I am eligible for claiming pension contributions. Is there any detailed guide on how to do this claim? In English would be perfect!

 

Any advice would be appreciated! 

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14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

Further to my above mentioned situation, now I am clear that I will do this to get my unused holidays paid; I physically leave and de-register myself from Munich/Germany on February 15, but I will report to HR to say I will end my job contract on March 8, 2019 to get all unused holidays paid out. [is this right way? and the only way? just for double check...]

 

 

I doubt you can give notice as of March 8th. Look at your employment contract, there are notice periods. Usually it's the 15th or the end of the month, not just any arbitrary day. 

 

14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

1. Health Insurance with TK

Shall I cancel my health insurance immediately on the departure date, February 15? if so, then will it affect my salary for the periods Feb 15-March 8 when I am still employed in Germany on the paper?

 

 

See above. I don't think you give notice as of March 8th. Your last day in compulsory insurance will be the day your employment contract ends. If something happens afterwards, you are no longer insured. 

 

14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

2. Child benefits

Currently I receive two types allowance:

(a) Children's Allowance - Kindergeld, and 

(b) Bavarian Family Allowance- Bayerisches Familiengeld

 

I came across previous posts on the termination of child benefits. It seems that as long as I get salary, then I have to pay the social contribution, which makes me eligible for the child benefits, right?

 

Yes.

 

14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

So when I should report to the responsible authority to end my child benefits? the exact de-registration day (Feb. 15) OR the end of my job contract with unused holidays (i.e., March 8)?

 

The day your employment contract ends.

 

14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

3. Tax declaration 

I have been working in Munich from August 2015. I have never filled a tax return. Now my colleagues advise me to make tax declaration before I leave.

Do I really have to make the tax declaration before my departure?

 

If you're not required by law to file a tax return, you don't have to do it. 

 

14 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

4. pension contribution claim

I am from non-EU and work in Germany less than 5 years. So I am eligible for claiming pension contributions. Is there any detailed guide on how to do this claim? In English would be perfect!

 

 

:-( That topics's been discussed sooooo many times that there is even a Wiki:

 

https://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Pension_refunds_on_leaving_Germany

 

Beware: "The claim can only be made 2 years after leaving Europe (EU/EEA/CH). Note that only the employee contributions are refunded, not the employer's. So you lose half of it."

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Dear @someonesdaughter ,

 

Thank you very much for your reply. 

About the TK insurance, I still could not get the point.

 

 17 hours ago, peterinmuc said:

Further to my above mentioned situation, now I am clear that I will do this to get my unused holidays paid; I physically leave and de-register myself from Munich/Germany on February 15, but I will report to HR to say I will end my job contract on March 8, 2019 to get all unused holidays paid out. [is this right way? and the only way? just for double check...]

16 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

I doubt you can give notice as of March 8th. Look at your employment contract, there are notice periods. Usually it's the 15th or the end of the month, not just any arbitrary day. 

 

Sorry for previous misleading words. Yes, I know the notice period of 3 months in advance. Here I meant that I report to HR to say that my last working day would be March 8,2019. I checked with our secretary, she told me that I can fill the last working day as what I like, no need to be 15th or end of a certain month (before I had the same doubt as you mentioned), so it means March 8 could be possible. 

 

16 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

1. Health Insurance with TK

Shall I cancel my health insurance immediately on the departure date, February 15? if so, then will it affect my salary for the periods Feb 15-March 8 when I am still employed in Germany on the paper?

----

See above. I don't think you give notice as of March 8th. Your last day in compulsory insurance will be the day your employment contract ends. If something happens afterwards, you are no longer insured. 

 

See above, I meant the last working day is March 8th, but actually I would have already de-registered at KVR and leave Germany to the UK on February 15th. 

I have contacted my insurance company TK, they replied me that I just need to send them a de-registration form from KVR, then it is ok. [This is not new and standard procedure]. 

So I am still confused about your reply. What I will do is actually that I send my de-registration to the TK insurance company on February 15th, then as they said my TK insurance would be terminated at that time.

From the February 15th to the March 8th, the period my running working contract [actually I use this as holidays], since I am already de-registered and then why I still need to pay the health insurance in Germany?   Let's imagine, as you said "the last day in compulsory insurance will be the day your employment contract ends",  that is March 8th. Then how could I cancel the insurance? I mean on March 8th, I send my de-registration issued on February 15th to the insurance company and say I want to cancel this insurance. Does this make sense?

 

If I understand correctly, by definition, compulsory health insurance means everyone has to pay for it when she/he resides in Germany. from the TTer posts, it seems that even she/he does not work and she/he still has to pay for the insurance, right? Then on the other hand, does it means that if one would not reside in Germany (evidenced by the already de-registration on February 15th in my case), then one does not need to pay the insurance?

 

Perhaps I am too stupid here, but I really get stuck in here. Hope you and someone could help me out.

 

 

16 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

2. Child benefits

Currently I receive two types allowance:

(a) Children's Allowance - Kindergeld, and 

(b) Bavarian Family Allowance- Bayerisches Familiengeld

 

Yes.

 

 

The day your employment contract ends.

 

Here about the child benefits, I got it. So I am report to the authorities by March 8th 2019, the last day of my contract.

 

 

16 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

If you're not required by law to file a tax return, you don't have to do it. 

 

 

Until know I have not received any mails or notices that I have to fill a tax return. Anyway I am going to meet a tax consultant to discuss about it, or ask them to help me about this tax declaration.

 

4. pension contribution claim

Thanks for your reply on the pension. I found the existing guidance. Since I get a permanent position in the UK and the UK is still a member of EU, this means that I cannot claim the pension contribution right now.... 

 

 

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Please get this straight: What's the deadline for your resignation?

 

If you give notice as of February 15, that's the day your contract ends. The contract doesn't continue until 8.3. It ends. You must take your leave before the last day. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

Please get this straight: What's the deadline for your resignation?

 

If you give notice as of February 15, that's the day your contract ends. The contract doesn't continue until 8.3. It ends. You must take your leave before the last day. 

 

 

@someonesdaughter

Thanks. 

The deadline for my resignation is the 3-month before my last working day.

For sure I will leave Germany on February 15 as the flight has been booked, but I simply want to get my unused holidays paid out. then February 15 + unused holidays = March 8th. So in order to get paid out, I have to mention March 8th as the last working day.

Accordingly, 3 months before March 8 is December 8th 2018 should be the deadline for my resignation. 

Is there something wrong here?

 

Could you kindly also follow up with the TK insurance mentioned above? Thank you. 

 

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7 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

Accordingly, 3 months before March 8 is December 8th 2018 should be the deadline for my resignation. 

Is there something wrong here?

 

After more than 25 years of working experience in Germany, I still think it is unlikely that you can give notice as of  March 8... Anyway:

 

7 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

Could you kindly also follow up with the TK insurance mentioned above? Thank you. 

 

 

As 2B already said, you "must deregister as close as possible to the date you intend to leave Germany and in any case no later than 14 days after or earlier than 5 days before moving out of your final permanent address in Germany".

 

Once your working contract ended, you are not longer insured by law (compulsory insurance). That means TK will charge you the full premiums (as voluntarily insured) until the day you show them your deregistration and they cancel the contract. Once that contract is canceled you are not longer insured at all. I suggest you look for some travel insurance or contact one of TTs local expert, johng. or Starshollow. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

After more than 25 years of working experience in Germany, I still think it is unlikely that you can give notice as of  March 8... Anyway:

 

@someonesdaughter

So based on your experience, the last working day is either 15th or end of a certain month. You doubt is about this [8th of a month is unlikely], right?

 

OR you doubt the way to get the unused holidays paid out??

Actually I am also wondering if it is possible to get the unused holidays paid out directly without intentionally postponing the work contract? I mean could I report HR that

 "I will leave Germany on February 15, but I have two weeks holidays unused [which could postpone my last working day to March 8th], could HR pay these two weeks out [February 15th -March 8th] on February 15? "  Is this possible??

 

 

I just want to make sure how to get the unused holidays paid out... 

 

Thank you very much. 

 

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8 minutes ago, peterinmuc said:

 

@someonesdaughter

So based on your experience, the last working day is either 15th or end of a certain month. You doubt is about this [8th of a month is unlikely], right?

 

Right.

 

Quote

 

OR you doubt the way to get the unused holidays paid out??

 

I doubt the way you think it works:

 

Quote

Actually I am also wondering if it is possible to get the unused holidays paid out directly without intentionally postponing the work contract?

 

If you give notice as of February 15, that's the day your contract ends. There will be no postponing.

 

You either have to take your holidays before the end of the contract i.e. before February 15, or work until that last day and get your unused holidays paid out.

 

Talk to HR on Monday if they are ready to pay you for your holiday or if they simply say that you have to take your holiday just before the last day. Or sometime in the next few months, for example around Christmas.

 

 

 

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