Einbürgerung/Citizenship process Prenzlau berg/Pankow

[sjohn 6]

Has anyone recently applied for einburgerung at Burgeramt Pankow ?
How long did it take to get Termin there, and how long did the process take. Currently it shows appointments only until 21. November, (all booked).

Can anybody share their experience?

[evildudette 2,276]

Because of Brexit, current waiting times are longer than usual.

 

In Friedrichshain I had to wait 3 months for an appointment, then my case worker was sick that day and I had to wait another 4 months for her next available appointment. I doubt Pankow is all that different.

[swimmer 3,707]

1 hour ago, sjohn said:

Currently it shows appointments only until 21. November, (all booked).

 

Do you have to book it only there? Not in person etc.  The website says:

 

Quote

Wer deutscher Staatsangehöriger werden möchte, sollte mit uns während der Öffnungszeiten persönlich Kontakt aufnehmen.

 

You might be advised to absolutely nail the appointment system - understand to the minute when the new dates are released to book and be right there to grab one.    I think there may have been some discussion of how to get the best result of this booking process in Berlin on the long Brexit thread based on what a local Facebook group said (so perhaps check also those) but not 100% sure.  Some tips were provided. 

 

When I do my business in Berlin, even for low grade process and in a setting where "walk in" is easy,  I still try to book an appointment as soon as slots are available.   I note in my diary when I need to be in front of the screen to try and get a newly released one.  (I have not done it for a while bit I recall new dates for those processes tended to be released in blocks i.e. not daily, they fortunately come out on my early morning swim day ). 

 

Both my and your Bezirk sets an expectation (and so I guess it may be standard across the whole city state) -   minimum least six months.    

 

Quote

Durchschnittliche Bearbeitungszeit

Die Bearbeitungszeit bis zur Entscheidung über den Antrag auf Einbürgerung dauert mindestens 6 Monate. Danach schließt sich je nach Herkunftsland ggf. ein Entlassungsverfahren aus der bisherigen Staatsangehörigkeit an.

 

https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/318998/standort/327427/

[engelchen 13,041]

 

1 hour ago, sjohn said:

Has anyone recently applied for einburgerung at Burgeramt Pankow ?
How long did it take to get Termin there, and how long did the process take. Currently it shows appointments only until 21. November, (all booked).

 

They book appointments only 6 weeks in advance and new appointments are released twice a week (I forget which days, but I think I've noted it down somewhere). You need one appointment for the Beratungsgespräch where they'll give you a list of what they want from you and a second to hand in the application. Appointments are only available online and the processing time is about a year.

 

There are only two women working there and they won't be getting any new personnel anytime soon. The older women insists on official translations of documents in English and German language tests even for applicants who speak C2 German. The younger one seems a bit more pragmatic (she wasn't going to insist I take a language test).

 

 

 

[swimmer 3,707]

15 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 The older women insists on official translations of documents in English and German language tests even for applicants who speak C2 German. The younger one seems a bit more pragmatic (she wasn't going to insist I take a language test).

 

Might be advisable to at least check out for options for official translations and such in advance then.  Find a potential supplier.

[onemark 787]

Just make sure your translator is also legally authorised to certify translations as being complete and correct.

[kayw 65]

Hi sjohn, we talked about this on another thread:

https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/378532-tips-for-getting-an-einbürgerung-appointment-in-berlin/

[sjohn 6]

Thanx for the info.

 

I managed to book an appointment yesterday for 22 November. It opened up around 17:00.

19 hours ago, swimmer said:

 

Do you have to book it only there? Not in person etc.  The website says:

"Wer deutscher Staatsangehöriger werden möchte, sollte mit uns während der Öffnungszeiten persönlich Kontakt aufnehmen."

 

well they say to personally appear during the opening hours, and opening hours say 'by appointment only'.

19 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

They book appointments only 6 weeks in advance and new appointments are released twice a week (I forget which days, but I think I've noted it down somewhere). You need one appointment for the Beratungsgespräch where they'll give you a list of what they want from you and a second to hand in the application. Appointments are only available online and the processing time is about a year.

 

There are only two women working there and they won't be getting any new personnel anytime soon. The older women insists on official translations of documents in English and German language tests even for applicants who speak C2 German. The younger one seems a bit more pragmatic (she wasn't going to insist I take a language test).

 

 

 

 

What others documents did they ask ?
I suppose they would need my birth certificate and marriage certificate translated, the rest of the documents like job contract, pay slips, renteverlauf would already be in German.

Also, I have a Masters degree from German University, would they ask me to do the Einbürgerungstest ? If so is it wise to give it before or after the first appointment  ?

[swimmer 3,707]

30 minutes ago, sjohn said:

Also, I have a Masters degree from German University, would they ask me to do the Einbürgerungstest ? If so is it wise to give it before or after the first appointment  ?

 

Yes, they will ask you.  

 

You perhaps need to check whether you can do it now with the provider (probably a VHS).   I did not do mine in Berlin but one of the questions I got asked when I registered was basically:  "Who referred you?".  (Answer - Ausländerbehorde, when I gave my citizenship application in: no idea if that was verified but it was recorded and I think they might also be sent the result, my memory is a bit hazy...but it's coming back, they seemed to expect people to be at the end of the integration course and thus have some sort of form to give in, and so had to ask me why I was there without one).

 

This probably tells you (Anmeldefrist, also talks "Teilnehmermeldebogen"):

 

https://www.berlin.de/vhs/service/einbuergerung/deutscher-einbuergerungstest/

 

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

3 minutes ago, sjohn said:

Thanx for the info.

 

I managed to book an appointment yesterday for 22 November. It opened up around 17:00.

 

well they say to personally appear during the opening hours, and opening hours say 'by appointment only'.

 

What others documents did they ask ?
I suppose they would need my birth certificate and marriage certificate translated, the rest of the documents like job contract, pay slips, renteverlauf would already be in German.

Also, I have a Masters degree from German University, would they ask me to do the Einbürgerungstest ? If so is it wise to give it before or after the first appointment  ?

 

If you degree was done in German in Germany then they would not ask you for a language test.  But you will still have to do the Einbuergerungstest. 

I suggest you look at booking this ASAP.  Some areas have long waiting times.  In fact, it is often better to look at smaller towns outside of the main cities in order to shorten this.

 

 

 

[swimmer 3,707]

32 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

I suggest you look at booking this ASAP.  Some areas have long waiting times.  In fact, it is often better to look at smaller towns outside of the main cities in order to shorten this.

 

This one is a state process and not sure there's an open market in providing it.  It's for residents who are the ones paying for VHS etc, I think?   In Berlin, however, one's registered Bezirk only? Don't know.   My bit basically is a "small town" with no apparent great demand for any service (although the logical consequence is that it therefore it barely appears in this following list of dates).

 

https://www.vhsit.berlin.de/VHSKURSE/BusinessPages/CourseList.aspx

 

As to what you need, my own approach is to start a file.  Just do things in one go, if possible, and take it all with you.   It was one point I really valued a copier / scanner .  I always took along a copy along with the an original (such as a language cert) so it could just be given in, so they never had to take my docs and do it themselves.   Definitely take your address registration, and any document relating to residency. (For example only, as it's long since stopped - they were very happy to see my 2006 Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung)  Even with the degree, it won't hurt to take any accredited language cert, just in case.  Standard official passport photos as well.  Also glad I had some...but still needed more by the end .  They will tell you anything else specific. 

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

22 minutes ago, swimmer said:

 

This one is a state process and not sure there's an open market in providing it.  It's for residents who are the ones paying for VHS etc, I think?   In Berlin, however, one's registered Bezirk only? Don't know.   My bit basically is a "small town" with no apparent great demand for any service (although the logical consequence is that it therefore it barely appears in this following list of dates).

 

https://www.vhsit.berlin.de/VHSKURSE/BusinessPages/CourseList.aspx

 

As to what you need, my own approach is to start a file.  Just do things in one go, if possible, and take it all with you.   It was one point I really valued a copier / scanner .  I always took along a copy along with the an original (such as a language cert) so it could just be given in, so they never had to take my docs and do it themselves.   Definitely take your address registration and any document relating to residency. (For example only, as it's long since stopped - they were very happy to see my Freizügigkeitsbescheinigung)   Standard official passport photos as well.  Also glad I had some...but still needed more by the end .  They will tell you anything else specific. 

 

 

You can take the Einbuergungstest in any location you like.  Yes it is state issued test and the price is also set by the state, but you can go anywhere which is offering it.  They are mainly offered by VHS, but each VHS has different demands and is somewhat independent.

There is nothing on the certificate to show where the test was taken.  In fact although I took mine in my local small town in Hessen the certificate actually states "Nuernberg" on it, because that is where it was issued!

 

 

There is a post today from @Billybulldog which states that he went to Hofheim to take the test instead of doing it in Frankfurt exactly in order to speed things up.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Billybulldog said:

..Took the tests at the VHS in Hofheim (Taunus) as the waiting time was shorter than in Frankfurt Hoechst. ...

 

 

 

 

[engelchen 13,041]

1 hour ago, sjohn said:

I managed to book an appointment yesterday for 22 November. It opened up around 17:00.

 

Congratulations!

 

Quote

What others documents did they ask ?

 

They will tell you exactly what they want from you at your first appointment.

 

Quote

Also, I have a Masters degree from German University, would they ask me to do the Einbürgerungstest ? If so is it wise to give it before or after the first appointment  ?

 

It depends. What did you study? Did you study in German? Did you take the TestDaF or the DSH?

 

Are you looking for the quickest way through the process or the cheapest (which might take a little longer)?

[ruapehu 3,756]

Quote

4 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

You can take the Einbürgerungstest in any location you like...There is nothing on the certificate to show where the test was taken.  In fact although I took mine in my local small town in Hessen the certificate actually states "Nuernberg" on it, because that is where it was issued!

 

I was told that this is not true (it isn't about where the certificate is issued though). You must sit the test in the state in which you are registered as living, because a small percentage of the questions are specific to that state. I was told that if I moved states between sitting the test and applying for citizenship, I may have to repeat the test, or at least the state-specific questions. Whether this would be enforced, I of course don't know. But it seems to make sense, as the applications are also processed within the state where you are registered.

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

2 hours ago, ruapehu said:

I was told that this is not true (it isn't about where the certificate is issued though). You must sit the test in the state in which you are registered as living, because a small percentage of the questions are specific to that state. I was told that if I moved states between sitting the test and applying for citizenship, I may have to repeat the test, or at least the state-specific questions. Whether this would be enforced, I of course don't know. But it seems to make sense, as the applications are also processed within the state where you are registered.

 

 

Ok to be honest I did mean within the same state, but this is important for people who live close to a border so is a good point.

But the certificate issues does not state in which state you sat the test.  And mine was issued from another state!

 

[DoubleDTown 395]

6 hours ago, engelchen said:

They will tell you exactly what they want from you at your first appointment.

 

I agree, BUT, take any stuff you have on hand with you to the first appointment so when they tell you what they want if it raises questions for you the option is available to immediately show what you have and ask if what you have will do.

[ruapehu 3,756]

Quote

10 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

And mine was issued from another state!

 

I didn't notice at the time, because I am based in Nuremberg. But they likely all are processed and issued centrally in Nuremberg because that's where BAMF's HQ is.

[CaptainKurt 20]

So the freakiest thing happened to me.

The woman was polite, but a little bit robotic stating all cases of naturalization possible, even though I walked in with my partner and we introduced ourselves as such and I stated all necessary dates right at the beginning. zzzzz... until she got to the 3-year case for married/partners of German citizens. Thank you, I already knew that.

I had a lot of docs with me which I knew I she wouldn't take them right away, but just to show her I tick almost all the boxes. I'm missing just few ones that I'm working on.

She asked for B1 certificate and I promptly pull my one from Goethe from 2014. Alles gut!

Then she asks about integration course and I go "er... I don't need that, I'm quite integrated, I'm not from China or Iran, or Uzbequistan". (no offense, but I was just trying to prove I'm from a friendly very christian western nation that shares pretty much all the german values).

"Oh but you will need a test..."

"I just told you have finished a master’s in Germany. It's from a german school. My masters is in public policies"

"But it must be a study in political science, or law..."

"It IS Political science, check the back of my certificate"

...(she reads)...

"Ah ok, then you don't need the test, but now I will need a certificate of B2 German"

 

Like WTF??? She changed the rules because I proved her wrong?

Don't worry, I am a lawyer myself back home. I have lawyer friends here in Germany as well who work with Ausländerrecht.

She will take my B1 certificate whether she likes it or not.

Like everything in Germany, they like to invent different interpretations of the laws depending on the Beamter’s mood. They really have ZERO training based on the laws, but rather on a handbook. But just put a lawyer in the middle and they sh*t their pants. Specially because when the Lawyer steps in, the boss of the beamter becomes aware of the situation. If they want to fight a lost battle… be my guest.

 

BTW, I also took a C1 course Teilnahmebestätigung from a local German course (not Goethe though), but she said that it was no good because it was not a certificate. It was given without an exam.

 

When she got to the rent contract part, we also had to repeat THREE times we don’t pay rent because we own our apartment. Seriously. THREE. TIMES. IN. A. ROW.

 

I think being a malfunctioning bot must be a job requirement for Beamter/In.

 

BTW2: she is the sole person in charge of this in Pankow as of now.

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

19 minutes ago, CaptainKurt said:

So the freakiest thing happened to me.

The woman was polite, but a little bit robotic stating all cases of naturalization possible, even though I walked in with my partner and we introduced ourselves as such and I stated all necessary dates right at the beginning. zzzzz... until she got to the 3-year case for married/partners of German citizens. Thank you, I already knew that.

I had a lot of docs with me which I knew I she wouldn't take them right away, but just to show her I tick almost all the boxes. I'm missing just few ones that I'm working on.

She asked for B1 certificate and I promptly pull my one from Goethe from 2014. Alles gut!

Then she asks about integration course and I go "er... I don't need that, I'm quite integrated, I'm not from China or Iran, or Uzbequistan". (no offense, but I was just trying to prove I'm from a friendly very christian western nation that shares pretty much all the german values).

"Oh but you will need a test..."

"I just told you have finished a master’s in Germany. It's from a german school. My masters is in public policies"

"But it must be a study in political science, or law..."

"It IS Political science, check the back of my certificate"

...(she reads)...

"Ah ok, then you don't need the test, but now I will need a certificate of B2 German"

 

Like WTF??? She changed the rules because I proved her wrong?

Don't worry, I am a lawyer myself back home. I have lawyer friends here in Germany as well who work with Ausländerrecht.

She will take my B1 certificate whether she likes it or not.

Like everything in Germany, they like to invent different interpretations of the laws depending on the Beamter’s mood. They really have ZERO training based on the laws, but rather on a handbook. But just put a lawyer in the middle and they sh*t their pants. Specially because when the Lawyer steps in, the boss of the beamter becomes aware of the situation. If they want to fight a lost battle… be my guest.

 

BTW, I also took a C1 course Teilnahmebestätigung from a local German course (not Goethe though), but she said that it was no good because it was not a certificate. It was given without an exam.

 

When she got to the rent contract part, we also had to repeat THREE times we don’t pay rent because we own our apartment. Seriously. THREE. TIMES. IN. A. ROW.

 

I think being a malfunctioning bot must be a job requirement for Beamter/In.

 

BTW2: she is the sole person in charge of this in Pankow as of now.

 

 

Please don't cross post!

 

 

Was she maybe referring to the Einbuergerungstest? Rather than integration course?

 

BTW:  Arguing with a Beamter who is incharge of your process won't help you!  She might not be the sharpest but she is still responsible for your process.

 

 

[swimmer 3,707]

The B1 certificate is normally mandatory.   No need to force  your certificate on them.  We are almost always required to do the naturalization test.  It would be unusual to be let off but not impossible as per your example.  Higher level language qualification acceptance is indeed possible in the rules, nothing "made up".   They are pretty rigorous on ticking that  "applicant is demonstrably integrated" box.  They would need to validate the alternative you gave them too of course.

 

100% true that a course participation cert means nothing.  We can all attend a course and it says nothing about our level.  I have one for C2 but would not pass the exam.   But C1 is above the language level needed anyway (B1) and is not relevant to the naturalization test component.   So it adds nothing - you lost nothing there.

 

Yes, this is bureaucracy.  That often ask for things that apply to many in the process but do not apply individually to us.  If we do not need the integration course, or have different housing tenure, just deal with it.  Supply the evidence like copy of ownership documents.  We lawyers, public policy and political professionals, senior professionals etc know all about bireaucracy.  And we apply for citizenship all the time here.  Playing the "Don't you know what my job is?"  card don't impress anyone much.