Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

[fraufruit 42,704]

@yesterday

"I also live in Munich, if I want to go skiing to Ischgl for a day, I can do it with a car, where you just cannot do it on public transport, in a reasonable time, an EV cannot do it also, the range is just not enough."

Ever heard of charging stations? They probably have chargers at the ski resort as well.

[yesterday 2,045]

You have to remember you are going skiing in the Winter, and getting there and back will be a maximum load for the battery to make, you will have the heater on and the lights at full strength and the battery will need to be heated all the way there and back, all of this will drain the battery faster than a normal cool summer drive its probably the most use case for the battery, its not normal battery use case

I am quite sure you can find a charger either there or on the way.

Option 1:you want to get there by 8.30, that means starting in Munich at 5:50!, if you cannot make it and need to recharge that adds another 20 or 30 mins, so you cannot start as early as if you drove an ICE car, or you have to start the day earlier, you may still need to re charge to get home, which would be about 18.30/19.00, including 2 20 or 30 mins charges, so it just makes your day longer, than driving an ICE car.

Option 2 :If lets say you can get there without charging, when you get there you put the car on charge, but you are not allowed to leave it there all day, so you go skiing and come back after 2 hours, thus wasting part of your skiing day or, after skiing is finished you set of for home and stop at a fast charging station, thus losing 20 or 30 mins.

A diesel car can get there and back, without recharging, its just faster.

In an ICE car you get in it and drive it, there is no waiting around for the battery to charge, 5 mins fill and your off, So yes, I agree can do it, but it just makes your day longer on an allready long day.

As an another example, in the Summer I did a tour, coming back from Bellinzona, Switzerland, then san bernardino pass then spulgen, then st Moritz then Landeck all without using the motorways, I filled the tank the night before I set off and drive back to Munich mostly on the B roads, no freeway. It took me over 10 hours, I did not stop to tank, and it was about4 80 km. Ok, I stop for a take out Mac Donald's for about 5 mins as it was a drive through, and had it while driving . How many EV's can do that ???, I still had plenty of fuel left in the tank.

Sure you can do it with an EV, but not without time consuming stops / breaks which some people like / others do not / others would want an overnight stop as well, but for me long trips in an ICE car are ok ( maybe not for others ), and I can get to places quicker, than an EV would.

But having said that, I still believe we need to fix the climate, and one of things that will do that is getting rid of ICE's cars, which we need to do, but at the moment its faster to drive an ICE when you need/want to.

[MikeMelga 7,346]

@yesterday, all these ski resorts have local chargers. You are just making FUD.

Give me ONE example where you think it won't work. I'll map it out for you.

And driving for 10h without stop is dangerous. Here we go again for the 1% use case, which in this case is even dangerous.

[yesterday 2,045]

Hi Mike

the examples are given above

either driving to ischgll and back on the same day or getting from Bellazonea back to Munich on the same day, without stopping to charge like I do with my Diesel, EV are good for the environment, but bad if you want to drive further or longer, because you need to stop and charge, while a diesel, will get you many more kms.

yeah some people say its bad to drive for so long, but I like driving, I have driven 16 plus hours, without a real break for many years, I have never been in an auto accident, unlike, many other drivers that only drive 4 hours and take a beak, then some how are involved in accidents, maybe I get into an accident tomorrow who knows.

Sure I agree I am a 1% or maybe 10 % user, but that does not mean, I want not to be able to drive. May I ask how many accidents you have been in after not driving more than 4 hours without a break ?

Ischgl has some crappy 11kw chargers, but again, they are normally for a couple for hours, I do not want to go skiing and have to come back down and move my car, wasting skiing time

[keith2011 2,707]

Yesterday said:- Quote "Option 1:you want to get there by 8.30, that means starting in Munich at 5:50!"
I am sure there are other ski resorts that can be reached in even less time by public transport (I never thought Ischgl was that great anyway) and have you explored other alternatives like an organised coach skiing trips?
Look for the pros and cons of the alternatives ( you can even sleep in a bed on some 16 hour train trips for example), don't get blinded by the pros and cons of the various self drive 4 wheelers.

[Fietsrad 433]

Could be the only good thing about €vehicles.

They force drivers to take a break.

[Krieg 15,113]

The ski resort I go (in CZ) has indeed EV chargers. Two of them.

(For like 3k cars)

[fraufruit 42,704]

I checked a map from Munich to Ischgl. It is almost all autobahn. One 20 min. charge on the way down and one on the way back would be enough even in winter. There are plenty of fast chargers on the Autobahn. Your EV would tell you where to stop and charge. It would be a good opportunity for breakfast and coffee.

Not so complicated, really.

[keith2011 2,707]

Krieg said Quote:-
"The ski resort I go (in CZ) has indeed EV chargers. Two of them.
(For like 3k cars) "

Are you saying that ski resort gets 3K EVs visiting and only has 2 chargers! Wow I did not know EVs were so popular in the CZ or that they had such extra super fast charges. to cope with such a high demand 😉

[catjones 1,720]

Go in the Summer...less wear on the battery, fewer crowds, cheaper hotel prices.

[yesterday 2,045]

@keith2011, Ischgl is one my favorite ski resorts, I want a car that gives me the option to do what I want ( that legal ), not a car that limits my options, as EV's do

@fraufruit Taking an extra 40 mins on my journey is not an advantage to me and I am sure it takes longer by the time you have got/off the Autobahn, finding the charger, connecting it up, entering credit card details, its a negative, ICE cars can do it EV;s cannot, ICE cars are just more flexible. II would prefer to have a shorter day not a longer one. Its not complicated at all, just slower.

@catjones There is not much snow in Ischgl in the summer time, so it kinda buggers up the point of going skiing.
.

To all your points, yes I can alter my life to be more friendly to EV's, but that not the point as to why I pay out cash to have a car. I have a car to give me extra freedom to do what I want when I want, EV;s just limit my freedom. Plus my underground garage is tiny, most EV's you can by are hugh and will not fit in garage. Mike is right probably this only effects a small number of users. These are negative points for an EV for me, I still do not like altering my life to cater for a crap car.

[keith2011 2,707]

yesterday said Quote:-
"Ischgl is one my favorite ski resorts"
At the risk of digressing.
There is certainly some good skiing there although the run down to the Swiss side suffers some of the worst flat light conditions I have ever encountered and what does a lift pass cost these days it used to be pricey?

[fraufruit 42,704]

"I still do not like altering my life to cater for a crap car."

Brilliant.

I respect your choices but that doesn't mean that those of us with different choices are driving crap cars.

Bitte.

[Krieg 15,113]

To many people cars are just tools. But to some, cars are like significant others. All these is very ironic, on one side you have some EV owners who tell you that having and EV brings zero inconvenience (not true) and it the other extreme you have the ones telling you that having a normal life with an EV is not possible. The truth is something in the middle. I personally thing the infrastructure has improved a lot, really a lot, but it is still lacking.

[yesterday 2,045]

@fraufruit, I agree, everybody has the right to choice the things that are right for them, and whats right for one is not right for everybody else.
Current EV's can be perfectly acceptable for most people, it just depends on your personal use case.

I view it as crappy because I want to do things that an EV cannot do or makes things more hard, while other people may view them as good/excellent , because EV's do the things the other people want to do, both views are valid.

Intresting video on Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMWejbE6jw

Near the end of the video, the IEA ( international energy agency ) estimates that if we achieve the ambitious energy reduction target, will reduce global warming by about 0.001 c or one thensousand of a degree of a degree, which does not sound like a lot, when you consider we are already at 1.2 deg above normal.

Could just be another crap Youtube video.

[fraufruit 42,704]

We wouldn't want an EV if we couldn't charge at home. That's for sure. Charging at work would also be OK but those days are over and you would still have the weekends.

Without watching your youtube, I know how much black soot I have to clean off of my balconies often from pure ICE exhaust in the city. That is what we are breathing in every day.

[catjones 1,720]

Not to mention: how many times do you go skiing? If two days out of a year determine your purchase, then it sounds more like a made-up mind before consideration.

[yesterday 2,045]

@catjones, thanks for your useless thoughts

I buy my stuff based on what I want and how I think it will benefit me, its my money and it will be used how I want it to be, not your useless thoughts. You have of course the right to spend your money on what you want.

Please keep your thoughts in the toilet where they belong.

[catjones 1,720]

@today...my, my. Having a bad day? Must be your time of month.

[Keleth 9,348]

"I am sure there are other ski resorts that can be reached in even less time by public transport (I never thought Ischgl was that great anyway) and have you explored other alternatives like an organised coach skiing trips?"

Does it matter if there are easier and better resorts?
His whole point is that he has to change his routine if he has an EV.
It´s like the whole pro and anti Brexit argument. One side mentions some inconvenience and the other side says "suck it up, learn to change".

EV owners are on a level with Vegans a lot of times, always right and always on gods side.
Owning an EV WILL bring in a lot of inconveniences for many owners and most pro EV owners are not willing to admit that or just dismiss peoples complaints as FUD.
It´s often a case of I´m alright Jack with many EV owners, most of them living in their ivory towers.

I would love to have an EV, reduced maintenance costs etc would be wonderful. But there is no way on earth I could afford one (waiting on someone to show me a link for a 2nd hand EV with 100k on the clock, 2 seats etc for only 6k). Price will be a problem for the next 15-20 years.
FrauFruit (a sensible voice in this whole argument) makes an excellent point about charging at home. I live in a block of 7 apartments, my parking space is about 40m from the house. How the hell could I charge from home even if my landlord would agree to put a charging point in.
I could charge at work but thankfully I´ve only got a few years left until that will be impossible.
The nearest street charging that I´ve seen is about 2km away but there´s 1 charge point and often 4 or 5 cars there. The tankstelle up the road from me doesn´t have any charging points yet. The advantage I would have is that 1 full charge would last me just over a week but that is not true for many people.
We keep hearing about how the infrastructure will be put in place, but this is Germany and have you seen how many places here don´t even have a decent internet connection and you think magically everywhere is going to have convenient charging places.
I would love for towns to be free of the shit cars spew out but all the time we have industries spewing it out and LKWs etc etc and god help if there´s a harbour somewhere in the region EVs are not going to be the be all and end all of our towns being clean. Evs like many things that govts enforce are a bandaid that won´t make a massive difference but it´s often those with the least that have to contribute the most.
Public transport needs to be improved massively, I´m sick of hearing how major cities have excellent transport links but that´s no fucking use to millions of people who don´t live in those cities.
I had to buy a car a few years ago due to my shift times changing and there is no way I could get to work without it. Well I could walk the 10km to work but who wants to do that before and after an 8-12 hour shift. Bike someone is going to say but same applies there.

So EV owners get off your high horses and admit there are many problems with EVs (teething problems? we´ll find that out over the next few decades) and stop poo poohing every complaint people has about them.