Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

[Chelski 1,480]

On 16/02/2023, 10:03:07, keith2011 said:

Presumably when Chelsea finally manage to win a game of football.

 

Does not compute. Sadly.

[rodisi 657]

Sorry folks, I don’t have time to read the whole thread as I’m on my way from Blighty to Frankfurt, in my diesel euro 4 car. It still has the green euro 4 plaquette. Can I drive into Frankfurt with this. I’ve been meaning to ask for days but….

[Krieg 15,027]

As far as I can see in this link, there is no ban in Frankfurt yet:

 

https://www.adac.de/verkehr/tanken-kraftstoff-antrieb/fahrverbote-umweltzonen/dieselfahrverbot-faq/

[rodisi 657]

Thank you.

[MikeMelga 7,312]

Today I contacted a garage here in Munich to check for prices to convert from Euro 5 to Euro 6. 

The lady was incredibly nice and told me i don't have to!

It seems there is a clause in the rules for Munich that, independently of being Euro 5 or 6, if the NOX emissions are below 270mg, you are excluded from the ban!

You just need to carry with you a copy of the EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung!

 

Which makes sense, because it should be about emission values and not a sticker.

[scook17 281]

On 5/9/2023, 3:13:34, MikeMelga said:

Today I contacted a garage here in Munich to check for prices to convert from Euro 5 to Euro 6. 

The lady was incredibly nice and told me i don't have to!

It seems there is a clause in the rules for Munich that, independently of being Euro 5 or 6, if the NOX emissions are below 270mg, you are excluded from the ban!

You just need to carry with you a copy of the EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung!

 

Which makes sense, because it should be about emission values and not a sticker.

 

Mike, how did you find out the NOX emissions? I don't find it on the registration document.

Seems every car gets a green sticker, so other than randomly stopping cars and asking, how exactly is this proposed to be policed?

 

I looked up my car, and I see they introduced SCR into the design in 2019

https://dieselforum.org/selective-catalytic-reduction-scr

https://www.tuningblog.eu/en/kategorien/tuev-gesetze-verbote/euro-norm-6-umruestung-456321/

 

"SCR can reduce NOx emissions up to 90%"

 

Basically what is commonly referred to as 'AdBlue'

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdBlue

 

So retrofitting old cars with such an exhaust treatment, might turn out to be a good after market product.

[yesterday 2,022]

yeah I have been thinking about his as well

 

I assume, what Mike means is that you get your car TUV every 2 years, you get 2 documents from this 

 

1( says the car is safe enough to drive on the road

2( an emissions statement of the car, its written on this as abgas n Anlage, I do not see anywhere were  EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung!  but I guess this is the document

 

I think Mike is right, its better to check the actual car emissions rather than reported specifications from the manufacture, as this can change over time.

 

The check will be made by the random cat checks that you see all round Munich etc. Of course if a cop sees, you are driving an old diesel in town there is nothing to stop him/her from doing this check on the fly.

 

My question is which figure do they check, as you get different figures printed depending if the car is idling  (leerlauf ) or in some other test cycle.

[MikeMelga 7,312]

1 hour ago, scook17 said:

 

Mike, how did you find out the NOX emissions? I don't find it on the registration document.

Seems every car gets a green sticker, so other than randomly stopping cars and asking, how exactly is this proposed to be policed?

This document ( EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung ) is issued by the manufacturer, specifically for your VIN.

If you don't have it, the manufacturer can issue a new on, but at a cost.

 

[scook17 281]

On 5/10/2023, 7:18:48, MikeMelga said:

This document ( EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung ) is issued by the manufacturer, specifically for your VIN.

If you don't have it, the manufacturer can issue a new on, but at a cost.

 

Ah, the EC Certificate of Conformity CoC. Now I know where to look. Thanks.

[yesterday 2,022]

 

On 10/05/2023, 19:18:48, MikeMelga said:

This document ( EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung ) is issued by the manufacturer, specifically for your VIN.

If you don't have it, the manufacturer can issue a new on, but at a cost.

 

 

Thank you so much 

 

Some additional information 

 

https://stadt.muenchen.de/dam/jcr:8f829800-de0c-4125-88ec-df585d90fe20/221222_Infoblatt-8.FS_LRP.pdf   Seems to be the place were this rule is, Bottom of the last page on the left had side of the page

 

Had a loook around on the internet, I can get a COC for my car from the main dealer for 0 Euro, as its private and the first time I asked, outside of that private dealers can cost as much as 200 Euro.

 

 

[scook17 281]

On 5/9/2023, 3:13:34, MikeMelga said:

It seems there is a clause in the rules for Munich that, independently of being Euro 5 or 6, if the NOX emissions are below 270mg, you are excluded from the ban!

You just need to carry with you a copy of the EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung!

 

I did not find this statement officially printed anywhere, only Euro 4/5/6 as the key definition.

 

[yesterday 2,022]

2 hours ago, scook17 said:

 

I did not find this statement officially printed anywhere, only Euro 4/5/6 as the key definition.

 

 

As said above, it said in this document.

 

 

https://stadt.muenchen.de/dam/jcr:8f829800-de0c-4125-88ec-df585d90fe20/221222_Infoblatt-8.FS_LRP.pdf   Seems to be the place were this rule is, Bottom of the last page on the left had side of the page

 

Here is a picture of the exception text, from the link to the document 

 

 

I went on Saturday, to 3 police stations in Munich. 

Non of the police knew about this exception, after talking about it for 

some time, 2 out of 3 police stations, said, if I showed the COC and 

the above linked document, then they would not make a fine, however the other one

did say they would fine me.

I would then have to contact driving lawyer to get my money back.

So it could be a lot of hassle until the cops learn the rules.

 

My car has less than half the allowed limit.

 

I asked the police which document they would verify my car emissions on, they did not know about the  COC or  EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung.

 

I ask further, from the department that issued the rules ( https://stadt.muenchen.de/dam/jcr:8f829800-de0c-4125-88ec-df585d90fe20/221222_Infoblatt-8.FS_LRP.pdf  ), which document the police should check, to determine the car emissions.

 

 

[scook17 281]

17 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

As said above, it said in this document.

 

 

https://stadt.muenchen.de/dam/jcr:8f829800-de0c-4125-88ec-df585d90fe20/221222_Infoblatt-8.FS_LRP.pdf   Seems to be the place were this rule is, Bottom of the last page on the left had side of the page

 

Here is a picture of the exception text, from the link to the document 

 

I went on Saturday, to 3 police stations in Munich. 

Non of the police knew about this exception, after talking about it for 

some time, 2 out of 3 police stations, said, if I showed the COC and 

the above linked document, then they would not make a fine, however the other one

did say they would fine me.

I would then have to contact driving lawyer to get my money back.

So it could be a lot of hassle until the cops learn the rules.

 

My car has less than half the allowed limit.

 

I asked the police which document they would verify my car emissions on, they did not know about the  COC or  EG-Ubereinstimmungsbecheinung.

 

I ask further, from the department that issued the rules ( https://stadt.muenchen.de/dam/jcr:8f829800-de0c-4125-88ec-df585d90fe20/221222_Infoblatt-8.FS_LRP.pdf  ), which document the police should check, to determine the car emissions.

 

Sorry I missed that section:

 

Can I retrofit my vehicle?

Vehicles with emission standards Euro 4/IV and Euro 5/V, which have a so-called nitrogen oxide reduction system with high reduction performance to comply with an emission value of less than 270 milligrams of nitrogen oxide per kilometer driven, are according to § 47 paragraph 4a sentence 2 number 2 BImSchG
exempt from traffic bans. To answer the question of whether your vehicle has a nitrogen oxide reduction system with high reduction performance.

 

The § 47 paragraph 4a sentence 2 number 2 BImSchG is here: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bimschg/__47.html which reads:

 

(4a) Bans on motor vehicle traffic for motor vehicles with compression-ignition engines are generally only considered in areas where the annual average value of 50 micrograms of nitrogen dioxide per cubic meter of air has been exceeded because the immission limit value for nitrogen dioxide is exceeded. The following motor vehicles are exempt from traffic bans:

1. Motor vehicles of emission class Euro 6,

2. Motor vehicles in emission classes Euro 4 and Euro 5, provided that they are used in practical driving in corresponding application of Article 2 number 41 in conjunction with Annex IIIa of Commission Regulation (EC) No. 692/2008 of July 18, 2008 for the implementation and amendment of the regulation (EC) No. 715/2007 of the European Parliament and of the Council on type-approval of motor vehicles with regard to emissions from light passenger and commercial vehicles (Euro 5 and Euro 6) and on access to vehicle repair and maintenance information (OJ L 199 dated July 28, 2008, p. 1), which was last amended by Regulation (EU) 2017/1221 (OJ L 174 of July 7, 2017, p. 3), emit less than 270 milligrams of nitrogen oxides per kilometer,

...

6. Motor vehicles of emission class Euro VI

 

Presumably items 1 and 6 will be removed/amended in subsquent updates. If they select to remove item 1 or combine it into item 2, I guess is an open question.