Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

[fraufruit 42,670]

Does corporate include rental car sales? Or just company cars?

[mtbiking 1,914]

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Are you sure? I don't find any such limit. Perhaps we can ask our resident tax expert?

I’m very sure, even though my company has a no-company car policy (even for managers and department heads) so I’ve never looked too much into it. 

here’s the info from a quick google search: 

 

Was ist die 1 % Regelung?

Entsprechend der 1 % Regelung – auch Listenpreismethode genannt – wird bei der Berechnung der Einkommensteuer 1 Prozent des Bruttolistenpreises des Firmenwagens zum monatlichen Gehalt hinzugerechnet. Dieser sogenannte geldwerte Vorteilerhöht das Bruttogehalt und durch die Steuerprogression den Steuersatz. Dadurch wird im Monat mehr Lohnsteuer abgeführt, was zu weniger Nettogehalt führt.

Das heißt, dass bei beispielsweise 27.000 Euro Bruttolistenpreis für einen Pkw jeden Monat 270 Euro "mehr" an Gehalt versteuert wird. Hinzu kommt eine Besteuerung von 0,03 Prozent des Brutto-Inlandslistenpreises des Autos je Kilometer der Entfernung zwischen Arbeitsplatz und Wohnort. Wer beispielsweise 15 Kilometer ins Büro fährt, muss insgesamt 0,45 Prozent des Bruttolistenpreises im Monat zusätzlich als Einkommen versteuern. Damit sind sämtliche Privatfahrten wie Urlaubsfahrten oder Heimfahrten zum Mittagessen abgegolten.

 

Wie wende ich die 1 % Regelung an?

Ein Beispiel: Das Bruttogehalt eines Arbeitnehmers beträgt 3.000 Euro im Monat. Plus die 270 Euro (1 Prozent vom Neuwagenwert) aus unserem oben genannten Beispiel, ergibt zusammen ein Steuerbrutto von 3.270 Euro. Kommen dann noch 121,50 Euro für die gefahrenen Kilometer hinzu, führt das zu einem Steuerbrutto von 3.391,50 Euro.

[Krieg 15,103]

1 hour ago, MikeMelga said:

Are you sure? I don't find any such limit. Perhaps we can ask our resident tax expert?

 

Man you really suck at this.  You do not pay 1% of the value of the car per month.  The 1% is income so you pay taxes over that.  What @mtbiking was trying to tell you is that for a 50k car your 1% will be 500€.  So if you make 8k brutto per month now your income base will be 8500€.  So in a very worst case scenario you will pay 250€ for your car.  Reality is probably even better, you should pay maybe 100-150€.

 

[PandaMunich 16,909]

3 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Are you sure? I don't find any such limit. Perhaps we can ask our resident tax expert?

They're right about income tax, the most having a 60,000€ car can cost you in income tax is:

• 1% * 60,000€ * max. 42% income tax rate = 252€ per month

Most people who get a company car already pay the maximum possible public health&nursing insurance contribution, i.e. even without the 1% of the car's gross list price that they have to tax as additional income every month, their gross salary is above the cap of the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze_KV (in 2023: 4,987.50€/month): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze#Aktuelle_Regelung

--> no extra public health&nursing insurance because of the car.

 

If their gross salary without that extra car part is also above the cap for public pension and unemployment insurance called Beitragsbemessungsgrenze_RV (in 2023: 7,300€/month in west Germany, 7,100€ in east Germany), then getting the car will not cost them anything in extra public pension and unemployment insurance either: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Rentenversicherung

If, however, their gross salary is higher than 4,987.50€, but below those 7,300€, it would cost them an extra:

• (9.3% pension + 1.3% unemployment) * 600€ = 63.60€ per month

[mtbiking 1,914]

45 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

They're right about income tax, the most having a 60,000€ car can cost you in income tax is:

• 1% * 60,000€ * max. 42% income tax rate = 252€ per month

Most people who get a company car already pay the maximum possible public health&nursing insurance contribution, i.e. even without the 1% of the car's gross list price that they have to tax as additional income every month, their gross salary is above the cap of the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze_KV (in 2023: 4,987.50€/month): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze#Aktuelle_Regelung

--> no extra public health&nursing insurance because of the car.

 

If their gross salary without that extra car part is also above the cap for public pension and unemployment insurance called Beitragsbemessungsgrenze_RV (in 2023: 7,300€/month in west Germany, 7,100€ in east Germany), then getting the car will not cost them anything in extra public pension amd unemployment insurance either: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Rentenversicherung

If, however, their gross salary is higher than 4,987.50€, but below those 7,300€, it would cost them an extra:

• (9.3% pension + 1.3% unemployment) * 600€ = 63.60€ per month

yep, thanks, it makes sense -> I kind of knew that, as the company car completely equals a gross salary increase with all that it implies. I’d get one if I could, and with electric cars being taxed with the 0.5% rule at the moment it would really be a no brainer to get one.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

Does corporate include rental car sales? Or just company cars?

Includes all, even leasing. In leasing you dont own the car, so it counts as corporate or company.

[fraufruit 42,670]

Thanks.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

Man you really suck at this.  You do not pay 1% of the value of the car per month.  The 1% is income so you pay taxes over that.  What @mtbiking was trying to tell you is that for a 50k car your 1% will be 500€.  So if you make 8k brutto per month now your income base will be 8500€.  So in a very worst case scenario you will pay 250€ for your car.  Reality is probably even better, you should pay maybe 100-150€.

 

Problem is, your salary will be reduced because of the benefit. In practice, it doesn't pay off. Forgot about the salary part. Last time I was offered it was many years ago.

E.g. you negotiate a 50.000€ salary, but if you get a company car, they will offer less salary, e.g 45-47.000€, that's why in the end it doesn't pay off.

 

In the meantime you keep insulting with half truths. Have you ever negotiated a company car for yourself?

 

EDIT: just to simplify, i was offered a company car instead of a salary raise. Of course in the end it didn't make sense.

[fraufruit 42,670]

35 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Problem is, your salary will be reduced because of the benefit. In practice, it doesn't pay off. Forgot about the salary part. Last time I was offered it was many years ago.

E.g. you negotiate a 50.000€ salary, but if you get a company car, they will offer less salary, e.g 45-47.000€, that's why in the end it doesn't pay off.

 

In the meantime you keep insulting with half truths. Have you ever negotiated a company car for yourself?

 

EDIT: just to simplify, i was offered a company car instead of a salary raise. Of course in the end it didn't make sense.

 

Himself came to the same conclusion when he was offered a company car in 2 different companies.

 

ETA - He figured he already had a paid for car so they weren't giving him anything.

[yesterday 2,039]

On 11/02/2023, 18:10:23, MikeMelga said:

 

Tesla tried it several years ago and saw it made no sense. It's OK to recognize when you're wrong. Tesla tried it. Doesn't make sense.

 

https://www.vehiclesuggest.com/what-happened-tesla-battery-swap/

 

Just because Tesla tried it and did not like it does not make it it bad for every company.

 

Thats why we have a massive choice in different car types, more choice is sometimes better

 

Thats a cool video, changing the battery in 1 min and 30 seconds. Thats like 12 times faster than filling the fastest EV charging speed

[scook17 292]

EV car sales tanked in Jan. 2023 as subsidies are cut

https://europe.autonews.com/sales-market/german-car-market-falls-january-ev-sales-plunge

https://thedriven.io/2023/02/07/electric-car-sales-plummet-in-germany-following-subsidy-cut/

 

PHEV (Hybrid) cars now excluded, where as a much better choice would have been to increase battery size and require zero battery usage below 50kmh if there is capacity.

 

104K EVs in Dec 2022 vs 18K EVs in Jan 2023 according to one article, different figures according to the other.

As we head into recession, I  would argue car sales on the whole will plunge.

 

[scook17 292]

22 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Problem is, your salary will be reduced because of the benefit. In practice, it doesn't pay off. Forgot about the salary part. Last time I was offered it was many years ago.

E.g. you negotiate a 50.000€ salary, but if you get a company car, they will offer less salary, e.g 45-47.000€, that's why in the end it doesn't pay off.

EDIT: just to simplify, i was offered a company car instead of a salary raise. Of course in the end it didn't make sense.

 

Additional taxable income is:

12% pa (1%x12 months) for a petrol/diesel.

6% pa (0.5%x12) for an EV > 60K

3% pa (0.25%x12) for an EV <= 40K

 

60K x 12% = 7200 Euros additional salary.

60K x 6% = 3600 Euros additional salary.

 

7200 @ 42% income tax = 3024 Euros additional tax.

3600 @ 42% income tax = 1512 Euros additional tax.

 

So if you loose 3.6K in salary income from the employer. That is 300 Euros a month you give up, up to 42% of which you would have paid tax on anyway.

Show me a 60K car you can lease for 300 Euros a month. At 3.6K for a 60K car lease, I would say it's a good deal.

Half the personal cost for a leased EV vs. a diesel, I'd have to ask who'd take a diesel.

As it was years ago, maybe it's a diesel you are referring to here?

[fraufruit 42,670]

But what if you already own a decent car outright? What are they givng you?

[MikeMelga 7,345]

24 minutes ago, scook17 said:

Half the personal cost for a leased EV vs. a diesel, I'd have to ask who'd take a diesel.

As it was years ago, maybe it's a diesel you are referring to here?

Agree, makes sense for pure EV, made no sense back then for a diesel. This was about 1 year before I bought the Tesla.

If I remember correctly, I would forgo a raise of around 4000€ to get a company car, which made no sense. 

Not only I would make no extra money, my whole salary base would be lower, meaning future raises would be based on a lower value. And any litigation issue would be done on the basis of a smaller salary.

[MikeMelga 7,345]

8 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

But what if you already own a decent car outright? What are they givng you?

You could sell your car... but in the end it's just messy. Remember that for any litigation or salary raise purpose, you now have a smaller salary if you accept the car.

[slammer 889]

Stuck for over an hour on the A96 because some fucknuts decided to be dickheads and block the road. There we all were, EV´s and ICE´s together fighting the evil greenie-meanie´s.

[Keleth 9,346]

16 hours ago, fraufruit said:

But what if you already own a decent car outright? What are they givng you?

They´re giving you nothing, but if you don´t own a car outright then you get a very good deal.

[slammer 889]

Whelp! Regardless of MegaMike breaking a lance or two for the EV, the end is nigh for the ICE. From yesterday on we now know that from 2035 there will be no more internal combustion engined cars sold in the EU.

In that light Ford were quick to announce that as of now, 2500 jobs will no longer be needed. 

[keith2011 2,703]

6 hours ago, slammer said:

In that light Ford were quick to announce that as of now, 2500 jobs will no longer be needed. 

 

Quite a surprise that, given that Ford and the other US car makers have a long history of designing and building cars in Europe for the European market on the basis of transport time and cost from the USA  and that their US products are unsellable outside of the Americas. Not sure why a switch to EVs would change that or is Ford not planning on making EVs?

[fraufruit 42,670]

3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

2500 jobs will no longer be needed

 

Perhaps most will be replaced by robots.