Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

[MikeMelga 7,251]

There are 2 kind of people. Those who never owned a decent EV, never did a long trip with it, and those who have.

Getting tired of explaining to the laggards. Better is to let them find out in 10 years, when pumps and repair shops close and they are forced to buy one.

[Keleth 9,279]

6 hours ago, CincyInDE said:

My point is that it doesn't matter how long it takes to go from say 20% charge to 90% for everyday usage.  It's not like you're hanging out at the gas station buying shitty hot dogs waiting for the car to be ready. 

 

If you were talking about fast charging on a long trip (it doesn't seem like you were), yeah, there's a bit of overhead compared to charging for day-to-day driving, but it's not much different than a road trip in an ICE car. 

As I said you didn´t even apparently read the quote in context at all.

It was about not being able to fuel your car at home in reply to not every household having a charger.

 

[Keleth 9,279]

2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There are 2 kind of people. Those who never owned a decent EV, never did a long trip with it, and those who have.

Getting tired of explaining to the laggards. Better is to let them find out in 10 years, when pumps and repair shops close and they are forced to buy one.

And this is why I´m on your ignore list and why I absolutely detest you and your total arrogance.

You have absolutely no idea how many people live in regards to circumstances and finance etc,everyone should buy a Tesla then it would be wonderful is your idea of any sort of argument.

 

 

Perhaps someone on here can ask you how often you make your wife polish your ivory tower.

 

 

 

[JG52 1,019]

20 minutes ago, Keleth said:

And this is why I´m on your ignore list and why I absolutely detest you and your total arrogance.

 

 

Occasionally I will peek at a post from someone on my ignore list to see if there have been any changes.  Because you quoted MM, I don't have to peek and can rest comfortably that the reasons I ignore him are still valid.

[jeba 4,348]

3 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

There are 2 kind of people. Those who never owned a decent EV, never did a long trip with it, and those who have.

Getting tired of explaining to the laggards. Better is to let them find out in 10 years, when pumps and repair shops close and they are forced to buy one.

Reminds me of my late uncle who used to say (when somebody forced him to slow down on the Autobahn) that people who can't t afford a Porsche should at the least stay at home. He was joking though. We're you?

[LeonG 14,797]

4 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Better is to let them find out in 10 years, when pumps and repair shops close and they are forced to buy one.

 

Unless you can charge at home or live very close to a public charging station, it's not very convenient to have one right now.  It might be better in 10 years, more charging stations, faster charging probably but more EV's too. 

[yesterday 1,979]

Not to mention, what a decent EV costs, well I guess he means a Tesla, which when buying a new one, will cost at least 47,000 Euro, which is well above the average cost of an ICE car, and an 11,000 euro ICE car, has a greater range than a Tesla and can be re filled in 7 mins.

 

So when you consider all of these things, alot of people are going to be worse off, if the full EV program is implemented

 

Also its forgotten, that currently EV's are for people who like to stop every 3 hours to charge, get some fresh air, drink a coffee, while they are not for people who will drive 6 or 8 hours without stopping.

 

Do not get me wrong, EV;s have advantages, its just they are not for everybody 

[LeonG 14,797]

2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Not to mention, what a decent EV costs, well I guess he means a Tesla, which when buying a new one, will cost at least 47,000 Euro, which is well above the average cost of an ICE car, and an 11,000 euro ICE car, has a greater range than a Tesla and can be re filled in 7 mins.

 

So when you consider all of these things, alot of people are going to be worse off, if the full EV program is implemented

 

I was looking at autoscout last night.  I found a 10 year old Tesla for 28,800€  A lot of people can't even afford that.  A lot of people live in apartments.  They don't have a driveway or a garage to install a charging station.  Even if they did, that costs money too.  If you have an old house, you may have to upgrade your whole electrical system. 

 

I wouldn't be able to charge at home so if I were to afford the Tesla, charging it would mean driving 15 min. to the next supercharger and then I guess it takes like an hour to fully charge.  I'd rather take my ICE car to the gas station.  Sure if there were less ICE cars, there might be less gas stations but the EV system is going to have teething problems too when more people have EV's and they have to catch up with the number of chargers.

 

Somehow I foresee the people who drive ICE beaters today, if they were banned at some point, they'd be driving EV beaters with flat batteries, maybe with a diesel generator in the boot to be able to charge up on the go  That or they'll ride the bus, e-bike etc.  Public transport should improve if more people are forced to use it.

 

[yesterday 1,979]

23 minutes ago, LeonG said:

 

I was looking at autoscout last night.  I found a 10 year old Tesla for 28,800€  A lot of people can't even afford that.  A lot of people live in apartments.  They don't have a driveway or a garage to install a charging station.  Even if they did, that costs money too.  If you have an old house, you may have to upgrade your whole electrical system. 

 

I wouldn't be able to charge at home so if I were to afford the Tesla, charging it would mean driving 15 min. to the next supercharger and then I guess it takes like an hour to fully charge.  I'd rather take my ICE car to the gas station.  Sure if there were less ICE cars, there might be less gas stations but the EV system is going to have teething problems too when more people have EV's and they have to catch up with the number of chargers.

 

Somehow I foresee the people who drive ICE beaters today, if they were banned at some point, they'd be driving EV beaters with flat batteries, maybe with a diesel generator in the boot to be able to charge up on the go  That or they'll ride the bus, e-bike etc.  Public transport should improve if more people are forced to use it.

 

 

I just did a search on autoscout24 

 

https://www.autoscout24.de/lst/tesla?sort=standard&desc=0&ustate=N,U&atype=C&cy=D&ocs_listing=include&priceto=30000

 

Price limit 30,000 for any Tesla It returned 3 hits, from 2013 / 2014, price was 29,000 Euro, so basically a 10 year old car, for the same price as the average car price today, ok from  a couple of years ago. And how long before a 10 year old car it going to get problems with the suspension, brakes, heaters/coolers and not to take about the battery, basically all the problems you get with ICE cars, except the engine.

 

Any Government that introduces a ban on ICE cars, will find they are out of Government at the next election and a new Government will be elected on the mandate to kill that law.

 

Normal people have to have a way to drive at a price that can be met on a normal salary.

 

Sorry to be a  laggard, but EV's are not for everyone.

 

Sure EV's and charging infrasture will improve over the next 10 years, lets see how much

 

[keith2011 2,579]

43 minutes ago, LeonG said:

I was looking at autoscout last night.  I found a 10 year old Tesla for 28,800€

 

That really kind of says it all! Despite all the disadvantages of EVs that have been highlighted here by the ICE lovers, the prices of used ones suggest that owners are highly satisfied with them!

I am not in the market for a new car of any kind and if I were, the similar cost of street charging (I live in an old apartment block with no garage) vs petrol and the current high price would be the biggest points against buying an EV rather than whether I would need to make 2 or 3 stops rather than 1 on a long journey. None the less I do applaud those who have bought  EVs you are helping to improve the air I breathe, thank you!

[optimista 5,840]

Don t forget the silence. If all vehicles were electric, the world would be so much quieter. Traffic noise became a huge problem years ago. Even the birds have to sing louder to compete. I find myself craving silence. Am I alone in this ?

[keith2011 2,579]

8 minutes ago, optimista said:

Don t forget the silence. If all vehicles were electric, the world would be so much quieter. Traffic noise became a huge problem years ago. Even the birds have to sing louder to compete. I find myself craving silence. Am I alone in this ?

You maybe right though there is still much the same noise from the tyres. I did "hear", however, that there is a legal requirement that EVs must use a noise maker to warn pedestrians that they are approaching. I seems we have become over reliant on our ears in determining if it is safe to cross the road.

Maybe an EV owner could confirm this?

[optimista 5,840]

Yes. I have a switch to activate noise when doing under 30km/hr in pédestrian zones. People can be taken by surpise. True. Extreme caution required upon approach from behind.

But the decibels from the noise of tyres is nothing to the noise of an engine.

[keith2011 2,579]

9 minutes ago, optimista said:

Yes. I have a switch to activate noise when doing under 30km/hr in pédestrian zones

Nice, can you select what type of noise? It would be great fun if it emulated a Ferrari or a BSA Gold Star with overlap and tweet.

Who needs a sports car.

[toBnruG 1,152]

Porsche EVs make a deep, guttural noise when going under 30. Hyundai and Toyota's sound a bit like what I imagine singing angels would sound like - pretty strange noise.

Don't know what type of car optimista drives but it is a legal requirement that all new EVs in Germany must make an artificial noise when driving less than 30km/h. My car has a switch to turn off the sound, but it would be illegal for me to push it unless I was on private land. Read: pointless switch.

I have heard some EVs driving around extremely quietly at below 30km/h, so I suspect some owners either deliberately turn off the noise or else, if they have a switch like optimista, deliberately avoid turning it on. Either method is pretty irresponsible.

I haven't heard a Mustang EV yet but I imagine it sounds like a V8.

[HH_Sailor 3,533]

But you can´t play music on an EV... like this :

 

 

[slammer 878]

4 hours ago, toBnruG said:

Porsche EVs make a deep, guttural noise when going under 30. Hyundai and Toyota's sound a bit like what I imagine singing angels would sound like - pretty strange noise.

Don't know what type of car optimista drives but it is a legal requirement that all new EVs in Germany must make an artificial noise when driving less than 30km/h. My car has a switch to turn off the sound, but it would be illegal for me to push it unless I was on private land. Read: pointless switch.

I have heard some EVs driving around extremely quietly at below 30km/h, so I suspect some owners either deliberately turn off the noise or else, if they have a switch like optimista, deliberately avoid turning it on. Either method is pretty irresponsible.

I haven't heard a Mustang EV yet but I imagine it sounds like a V8.

That could be a job for the future. Just like you could buy ringtones for your Händi, do some custom sounds for your car. IF, and it´s a big IF I ever buy a EV I want the Fred Flintstone car sound.

[toBnruG 1,152]

13 hours ago, slammer said:

... IF I ever buy a EV I want the Fred Flintstone car sound.

Solid choice. I might opt for Road Runner, but Fred Flintstone's is a strong contender.

[slammer 878]

6 hours ago, toBnruG said:

Solid choice. I might opt for Road Runner, but Fred Flintstone's is a strong contender.

MEEP, MEEEP! The next time the traffic light turns green.

[MikeMelga 7,251]

On 2/7/2023, 1:56:29, LeonG said:

 

Unless you can charge at home or live very close to a public charging station, it's not very convenient to have one right now.  It might be better in 10 years, more charging stations, faster charging probably but more EV's too. 

I keep saying the solution is to force companies with a parking lot to offer charging spots to employees. That would probably cover 50% of car commuters.

That would leave many chargers for others. New buildings already have to provide charging spots in their garages since a few years.

Street chargers are not the solution. Supermarkets should be forced to provide charging spots.

This should cover almost all daily drivers.