Diesel cars banned in Frankfurt

412 posts in this topic

13 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

 

 a Tesla Model 3 have enough range for 99% of your journeis. 

 

@70 grand plus...   ??

 

Fuck that for a game of soldiers..

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2 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Yes, but 99% is not enough!  As the other 1% is when you need the large car but it doesn't work for the situation.

Plus, the price is too expensive (I earn a good wage and can't afford that!) and it doesn't have the cargo space I need for the long trips.

For the remaining 1%, rent a car. Regarding price, you have to consider total cost of ownership. Electric cars should be much cheaper to run and maintain.

 

2 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

I think Tesla is probably the best EV option, but it is not yet quite their for me.  In a few years maybe, but that doesn't help me know.

Model 3 right now costs 58k€. Already cheaper than a comparable Merc. As they introduce cheaper variants next summer (now it is for early adopters) and the new battery generation comes, entry prices will drop to something around 38k€. This will come till the end of the year.

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16 hours ago, SpiderPig said:

Mike... They should start with the main Poluters first and not us sitting ducks...  

 

 

Ah yes, the old chestnut. How dare you perform this good because there are other far more better goods you should be doing instead you amoral bastards.

 

Used as often with environmental protection as charity i.e. How can you give to e.g. Save the Whales when there are starving children in Africa.

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1 minute ago, SpiderPig said:

@70 grand plus...   ??

 

Fuck that for a game of soldiers..

58k€, but wait until summer or end of the year, entry prices should go down to 38k

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How can they levy a 20 grand drop in price in 12 months but not now?

 

They need to make the vehicles affordable now... 

 

They arent selling as many as the want because they are rip-off expensive.. Tesla are stock-piling cars in garages all over munich coz they cant sell them!

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8 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

How can they levvy a 20 grand drop in price in 12 months but not now?

1) current price is for early adopters. Those who don´t want to wait. Typical sales trick.

2) they are only selling the big battery versions (and performance version), the mid range and low range batteries will come to Europe later. Also only the AWD model is currently available

3) the current offer comes will most of the "extras" included, you can´t un-choose them

4) the new battery tech will come into production somewhere in April/May. Should give 10-15% lower cost of battery, plus reduction on weight, which means more range (or use less cells for the same range)

5) they have a huge profit margin on the model 3. In some models, up to 35%! When demand slows down, they will reduce the margin

6) economy of scale and debt+investment reduction will allow lower costs

 

Eventually they will have a factory in Europe, that should bring costs down even more, but that will take 3-5 years.

 

I am waiting for the summer, but most likely I will order it by the end of the year.

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50 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Yes, but 99% is not enough!  As the other 1% is when you need the large car but it doesn't work for the situation.

 

For the 1% you find another solution, which is probably renting an ICE.

 

You go to IKEA every 2 years, you do not have a van just for those IKEA trips.

 

You only have to adjust a bit the way you do things, which comes with change.    If you complain about the price of renting an ICE once or twice a year, keep in mind the whole cost, running an e-car is much cheaper than running an ICE.

 

42 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

How can they levy a 20 grand drop in price in 12 months but not now?

 

The car they will sell you in 12 months is not the car they are selling now.  Right now they sell only the high end versions.  Even in the small Tesla 3 they sell the full package long range version.   The cheaper version will be a more basic car.

 

42 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

 

They need to make the vehicles affordable now... 

 

That doesn't fit the Tesla business model.  If they sell the cheap ones now they will go bankrupt.   This was explained by Elon Musk like 5 years ago.  They have to sell the expensives first so they make money to make the cheap ones.   The first cars they sold were the VERY expensive ones, we are now in the expensive ones but not too expensive.

 

42 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

 

They arent selling as many as the want because they are rip-off expensive..

 

AFAIK they can't produce faster to cope with the demand.  They have giant waiting lists.  

 

42 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Tesla are stock-piling cars in garages all over munich coz they cant sell them!

 

 

Comparing the global market with the German market is a bit unfair.  Germany is one of the worst developed countries to be an e-car owner, specially if you live in an apartment, the infrastructure is still pretty bad.    They probably just sent some cars to Germany to have a market presence but they do not expect to sell many here yet.

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Krieg.. Please take a second to look at the Thread title.. I am sure it Says "Frankfurt".. and last time I went there, it was in Germany...   

 

This is the Frankfurt I am talking about that is trying to force a diesel ban... 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Links please... 

Sure. Regarding your "stockpile" claim, explain why were people lining up in Munich to see the car?

https://www.i4u.com/2016/03/107922/tesla-model-3-line-tesla-motors-store-munich

 

Factory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Gigafactory_Europe

 

New battery, which will enable the $35k version:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-improving-design-of-battery-cell/

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6 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Krieg.. Please take a second to look at the Thread title.. I am sure it Says "Frankfurt".. and last time I went there, it was in Germany...   

 

This is the Frankfurt I am talking about that is trying to force a diesel ban... 

 

 

 

Sure but you made it sound like Tesla can't sell cars at all and it is a failing company.

 

There is a general issue with e-cars in Germany due to lack of infrastructure, it is not really a Tesla problem.   It is a lack of interest in e-car technology adoption from the government, obviously because of the power of the car industry here.

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2 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Sure. Regarding your "stockpile" claim, explain why were people lining up in Munich to see the car?

https://www.i4u.com/2016/03/107922/tesla-model-3-line-tesla-motors-store-munich

 

Factory:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Gigafactory_Europe

 

New battery, which will enable the $35k version:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-improving-design-of-battery-cell/

 

Ok.. The Battery link looks interesting...

 

The import of the cars from the USA will face huge taxes from Donald and his kronies...

 

The Factory... Its proposed... but nothing decided.. Lets see!

 

Take a drive to Feldkirchen... find the McDreams hotel and drive down into their Underground car park... You will be gobsmacked!

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11 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

The import of the cars from the USA will face huge taxes from Donald and his kronies...

 

I think Trump can't decide on import taxes on cars imported INTO Europe.   He can decide how they tax non-American cars into USA.   But, yes, Europe could retaliate.

 

Anyway, Tesla is not the only car maker making electric cars.  Actually the most popular electric car in Europe is French.

 

And I myself am more interested in Japanese e-cars.   Particularly Nissan and Honda because those are the ones that could reach low prices first.

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7 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Then please explain why I had to pay 25% EXPORT tax to the USA when importing my motorcycle last year..

 

Because it was used?

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Of course I believe you, but the reason you had to pay export duties was probably because the bike was used and/or was titled at least once.   This is why when you buy a brand new car from a US dealer and you want toe export it you have to make sure it was never titled, otherwise you have to pay export duties.

 

The link you posted is what I mentioned as retaliation, a decision made by the EU, not by Trump.   But he started first.

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On 24/12/2018, 09:45:44, dj_jay_smith said:

 

I find that in most German cities I have driven in that traffic light phasing not optimised.  They need to have more sensors so that they can adjust to the actual amount of traffic.

I remember watching a docu about how they done this around trafalgar square in London about 10 - 15 years ago, and while I can't recall the numbers the difference was impressive.

 

There is one section of road that I drive through regularly in Frankfurt, where along a 5km stretch there are 10 sets of lights.  Of these, 2 or 3 work in a sequence but the rest don't seem to make sense.

I have noticed that if there is no or light traffic that if I drive at the speed limit then I get caught at most of the lights (even though I am on the main road, and all the others are side roads), but if I drive slightly too fast then I have more chance of getting through a 3 or 4 light sequence without getting caught by a red light.  But, even if there is no traffic I will get caught by 2 or more red lights even when there is no other traffic.

 

I'm not sure. It seems that Munich traffic lights are controlled and coordinated. But it seems that the coordinator is a sadistic bastard who hates people and either wants everyone to constantly wait or to drive fast enough to run over a few kids and elderly each day. The traffic light timing here is worse than random.

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